10k between oil changes!?
4MLA1FN
of mine just bought a new a4 1.8t. he said the manual specifies he
can go 10k between oil changes and that synthetic oil is not required.
and he didn't say that audi-spec oil filters were required. does
anyone else find this amazing, especially for a turbo'd engine? what
happened to the "change every 3000miles" mantra that we learned when
growing up. has there been a revolution in fossil-based oil and more
importantly *oil filters* that i'm not aware of? thanks.
Spider
Well, there seems to be a lot of myth and legend surround the choices
for oil and oil change intervals. The short answer: Follow the
owner's manual, and use Audi filters.
Long answer: I have a 1.8T, and change the oil (synthetic) every
7.5-10k miles, BUT I change the filter and top up every 2500-3000
miles. I get Mahle filters from www.gprparts.com. Oil and filter are
cheap insurance, and I'd prolly do it more often, except for the
hassle of removing plastic bits to get at the stuff I need to get at.
:(
If he follows the short answer, he'll probably do just fine. If he
follows the long answer, he might feel better about how long the
bearings on his turbo will last.
Spider
Joe
I have a S4 and Audi recommends the same 10,000 miles. They do however
recommend using Audi oil filters. I have discussed this with the
service manager at my Audi dealership and he claims that the germans
have done many studies that show that 10,000 miles between oil changes
actually haleps the engine last longer. Something about "burning in"
components properly.
I do not agree and plan to get the oil changed at 5,000 mile
intervals. With twin turbos I do not want to take any chances.
Wolfgang Pawlinetz
>
> hi.
Hi too..
> .... what
> happened to the "change every 3000miles" mantra that we learned when
> growing up.
It turned out to be out of date and basically a good example of oil
company marketing.
> has there been a revolution in fossil-based oil and more
> importantly *oil filters* that i'm not aware of? thanks.
There have been numerous discussions on this.
However, I always find it amazing, that the work of a whole army of
development engineers, test engineers and 70 years of automotive
engineering are wiped away by "we always did it that way because it's
tradition".
And btw. Audi is not the only manufacturer doing this. Even the italians
extend the oil change intervals.
And obviously garages are screaming.
Regards
Wolfgang
Doug Ramage
"Wolfgang Pawlinetz" <wolfgang....@space.at> wrote in message
news:3CA2D287...@space.at...
Being a cynical sort of person, I suspect the main reason for extended
service intervals (including oil changes) is to make the vehicle a
competitive choice for the fleet/leasing managers.
It is likely that any engine damage may manifest itself outside the warranty
period?
--
Doug Ramage
TTCruiser
"Doug Ramage" <doug-...@taxman.uk.com> wrote in message
news:a7uk8h$oggh5$1...@ID-40797.news.dfncis.de...
In other words, oils should be changed every 3,000 miles but manufacturers
are trying to save a buck or two.
If that is the case....sad!
TTCruiser
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Doug Ramage
"TTCruiser" <TTcr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ca2d91d$1...@news5.uncensored-news.com...
etc), 3000 mile/3 month intervals is likely to be overkill, especially with
synthetic oils. I used to change my oil & filter on my previous Audi every
3000 miles/3 months because it only cost me around £15 (including labour) to
do so. Apart from a change of tappets at around 100,000 miles, no engine
work had been necessary when I sold it at around 150,000 miles.
--
Doug Ramage
Gregg
lower. Why shouldn't oil change intervals climb with better engineering?
Many people are driving way beyond warranty periods these days with good
results. Not to say some manufacturer decisions may not be self-serving or
the best in the long run, but this one seems a pretty safe bet if you are
not operating in extreme conditions. Plus, think of the oil being saved.
Gregg
Shon
oil filter ever 2500?? so you drain the oil and then dump it back in??? do
you wash and clean your oil pan every time, or is it sitting on the side of
the garage like mine??
bought a new Jetta in 97 and it called for oil change at 5K, 10k, and then
on every 10k
the dealer explanation was that the new oil has detergent in it (compared to
20 years ago), and it take the first few thousand miles to just burn the
detergent. changing the oil too after can actually damage the engine.
well, I've gone with my own system and been changing every 5000 miles. I do
use Synthetic and regular oil on my cars depending on the age of the car and
if there are any oil leaks.
on my Diesel cars, I use straight 30W oil and change every 3000 miles.
I do recommend dealer oil filter.
"Joe" <jpbi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d55e85ea.0203...@posting.google.com...
Stephen Bigelow
Shon <sat...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8SEo8.121507$Yv2.36553@rwcrnsc54...
> not sure I understand, as you say you change the oil every 7500-10000, but
> oil filter ever 2500?? so you drain the oil and then dump it back in???
Just changing the filter has nothing to do with draining the oil.
It's a whole lot easier, as it is (can be) done on a stone cold engine.
Wolfgang Pawlinetz
> Being a cynical sort of person, I suspect the main reason for extended
> service intervals (including oil changes) is to make the vehicle a
> competitive choice for the fleet/leasing managers.
Possibly. But on the other hand they are at the same time reducing work
for their own dealerships.
Many if not all manufacturers require owners to show up in the
brand-dealership for service to maintain warranty coverage. Less visits
therefore hurt their own dealership chain.
BMW e.g. has been doing that variable service interval thingie for years
now.
Also note, that 15000 km (i.e. ~ 9300 miles) oil change intervals have
been standard in Europe for years now for the same cars that required(?)
3000 miles interval in the states.
I think that's strange.
> It is likely that any engine damage may manifest itself outside the warranty
> period?
No. Because warranty periods are different all over the world.
Until recently, car manufacturers in Europe only had to give 6 months
warranty on new cars. 1 Year Guarantee (voluntarily) was common
practice. Obviously that's far below the 3 years/50000 (or such) I read
here for the states.
Since January 1st 2002, manufacturers by law are obliged to give 2 years
warranty. At least in Austria.
> --
> Doug Ramage
Wolfgang
Bernd Felsche
>"Wolfgang Pawlinetz" <wolfgang....@space.at> wrote in message
>news:3CA2D287...@space.at...
>> 4MLA1FN wrote:
>> > .... what
>> > happened to the "change every 3000miles" mantra that we learned when
>> > growing up.
>>
>> It turned out to be out of date and basically a good example of oil
>> company marketing.
>>
>> > has there been a revolution in fossil-based oil and more
>> > importantly *oil filters* that i'm not aware of? thanks.
>>
>> There have been numerous discussions on this.
>>
>> However, I always find it amazing, that the work of a whole army of
>> development engineers, test engineers and 70 years of automotive
>> engineering are wiped away by "we always did it that way because it's
>> tradition".
>>
>> And btw. Audi is not the only manufacturer doing this. Even the
>> italians extend the oil change intervals.
>>
>> And obviously garages are screaming.
>Being a cynical sort of person, I suspect the main reason for extended
>service intervals (including oil changes) is to make the vehicle a
>competitive choice for the fleet/leasing managers.
That's a valid motivation; and not one other consumers can ignore!
>It is likely that any engine damage may manifest itself outside the
>warranty period?
Not bloody likely as long as you stick to oil of at least the
recommended grade. I've been running fully-synthetic oils in my 1990
Golf (well, it's got an Audi engine in it!) since it went out of
warranty at 60,000 km. Now it's on 260,000 km. No problems at all
that can be put down to the 15,000 km change intervals (oil+filter).
Oils are far better than they were even 20 years ago. Next oil
change, I'm moving "up" to the next fully-synthetic "SJ" type at
5W40 - I used 5W60 initially, then 10W50 for a long time.
If you want to keep your mechanic happy, I'm pretty sure a monthly
visit with some brewed amber fluid will be as welcome as your
custom.
--
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
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X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature
/ \ and postings | to help me spread!
Hairy One Kenobi
How does limiting the number of garage visits /save/ a manufacturer money?!?
Or are they saving money by putting more expensive oil in?
Out here in Europe, service intervals have been about 3000 miles for a
helluva long time - it's going back a bit, but I seem to recall a 5000 mile
service interval on my 1971 Mini. My 1989 Citroen had a 9000 mile interval,
and the BMW and Audi both have variable servicing. Fixed on the Audi is at
10k miles, IIRC. With a re-chip, the AVS is telling me to get a service at
11,500 (I guess that the fuel consumption has gone up a little ;o)
When one manufacturer is making a big thing our of reduced servicing costs,
the others would usually follow; rental companies are the exception here -
they usually only get a service at 10k miles, when they are sold on. At any
rate, that's always been the policy I've seen. YMMV.
Personally, I quite like the idea of cutting the amount of oil dumped by
70%..
--
Hairy One Kenobi
Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this opinion do not necessarily
reflect the opinions of the highly-opinionated person expressing the opinion
in the first place. So there!
TTCruiser
"Hairy One Kenobi" <abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:zPYo8.12531$gj7.1...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
I believe that oil changes for the first 4 years are covered under warranty.
Warranty service is factored in the pricing of the car. So essentially
warranty work is prepaid.
When they decided to reduce the oil change intervals from 3000 to
10000....the prices of Audi vehicles
was not reduced in proportion to the labor cost and oil and filters over the
period of the warranty. In that regard, they are indeed saving a buck or
two.
> Personally, I quite like the idea of cutting the amount of oil dumped by
> 70%..
From an environmental perspective it is a great thing. Businesses are out to
make a profit.
So I doubt that protecting the environment was the incentive behind the
reduction of oil change intervals.
2cents
rob
>I believe that oil changes for the first 4 years are covered under warranty.
Not here in the UK, or the rest of Europe AFAIK.
We have to pay silly prices for oil changes to maintain
an official service record. I paid something like £130 ($185) each
for my A4's 1st and 2nd year services @ 9,000 and 18,000 miles.
Those services don't do much beyond changing the oil.
Aksel
"4MLA1FN" <rch...@umich.DELETEME.edu> skrev i en meddelelse
news:D13873AB2EEB2A7E.7B6E200B...@lp.airnews.net...
10000 miles intervals have been standard in Europe for many years, I have
just checked the manual from a Audi 100 1.8 from 1985 it says 10000 miles, I
had one and my son took it over 4 years ago, it has now gone to the eternal
Autobahn ( 3 lanes no speed limits ) after an accident. ( some moron did not
stop for red ) it had passed 300000 miles and the engine was running fine,
good compression, low on fuel and no oil consumption, only major engine
repair was new tappets and a head gasket at 280000 miles. it has always
followed the oil change intervals.
My current Audi 100 from 1994 says 10000 miles and filteer 20000 miles.
I am almost shure that no europeans change oil at 3000 miles, amd I am shure
that we drive our cars harder than the average american.
Greetings Aksel
Hairy One Kenobi
AFAIK, the US is the only country in the world that routinely does this[1].
Standing by to be corrected.. ;o)
> > Personally, I quite like the idea of cutting the amount of oil dumped by
> > 70%..
>
> From an environmental perspective it is a great thing. Businesses are out
to
> make a profit.
> So I doubt that protecting the environment was the incentive behind the
> reduction of oil change intervals.
Yep - re-read the part of the response that you snipped! (The bit where you
get more customers by reducing routine servicing charges)
H1K
[1] The only exception that I can think of is Daewoo in the UK, who were
trying to succeed where Skoda, Polski, and Lada had failed in the same
market; the idea was to include servicing in the price of a cheap car,
hopefully persuading people that a no-reputation car manufacturer would be
better that a more expensive manufacturer with a few decades' pedigree.
Fairly safe to say that it didn't have much impact..
4MLA1FN
<akselj-snabela-mail.tele.dk> wrote:
>10000 miles intervals have been standard in Europe for many years, I have
>just checked the manual from a Audi 100 1.8 from 1985 it says 10000 miles...
amazing! so i wonder why are american and japanese cars calling for
such frequent oil changes? well, actually, i can understand for
american cars. :) anyway, thanks for yours and others responses.
Hairy One Kenobi
Japanese cars in the US, maybe - I did a quick search for the Honda Civic
(for no more reason that it's built a few miles up the road) - 12,000 miles.
http://www.edmunds.co.uk/new/2001/honda/civic/27109/#running_costs for
details. US vehicles such as the PT Cruiser came out a fair bit worse -
7,500 miles.
I'd guess that marketing and user perception is the reason..
H1K
Saintor
is what I saw on most recent Honda, including mine.
Hairy One Kenobi
news:uac76o1...@corp.supernews.com...
> I guess there is a possibility they confused with 12000km / 7500 miles
which
> is what I saw on most recent Honda, including mine.
Are you US-based? The car that I'm talking about is the Civic that's built
just down the road from me in Swindon, UK. (Where we use miles ;o)
For a few other service interval examples, take the Mini
(http://www.edmunds.co.uk/new/2001/mini/mini/27442/index.html) - 10k first
service, then 15k.
Then there's the good ol' Mondeo at
http://www.edmunds.co.uk/new/2001/ford/mondeo/27062/index.html - 12.5k
service interval, confirmed by a friend of mine that owns one.
H1K
kinglemming
my a4 service intervals are 2years or every 20000miles which comes first
or when the computer says service me
steve
Saintor
> news:uac76o1...@corp.supernews.com...
> > I guess there is a possibility they confused with 12000km / 7500 miles
> which
> > is what I saw on most recent Honda, including mine.
>
> Are you US-based? The car that I'm talking about is the Civic that's built
> just down the road from me in Swindon, UK. (Where we use miles ;o)
Looks like many long time oil-related myths have been broken lately. :o)
4MLA1FN
<abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>For a few other service interval examples, take the Mini
just curious. does "service interval" in the uk mean the same as "oil
change" in the us?? i know in my subaru manual, there is a service
schedule (eg. every 15k or 30k miles) of when certain things should be
checked or changed , but oil changes are supposed to occur more
frequently.
-ron
Hairy One Kenobi
Yep. oil changes are usually referred-to as "Interim Services" - it /should/
be a little more than an straight oil change, with a variety of additional
checks being carried-out. As an example, having added something like 200ml
of brake fluid recently, I expect the garage to notify me that the pads have
worn and may need replacing.
I imagine that they'll be a few other bits & pieces, such as a new air
filter and a tune-up - too lazy to wander out to the car and check the book!
;o)
H1K
kokomon...@hotmail.com
The 3K thing is a bunch of BS that has been fed to Americans for years
by the "quick lube" places and the people who sell engine oil.
That said, it sounds like the suggested oil change interval has been
increased from what they are for my 2000 VW Passat with 1.8t. I assume
that VW and Audi have the same maintenance schedules for the same
engine.
Klaus Binder
There are a few sensors in the oil and they only send you to the
mecanic when needed. On my Audi TT 225hp Quattro the 1st oil change
was at 16K milles the next is currently planned for 31K.
The more you drive in the city the faster oil will degrade.
But when you take the car on the highway for a long trip (about
500miles) it typically makes no changes to the counter.
The only problem is that you can only use one kind of syntetic oil and
it is more expensive.
Klaus
On Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:10:03 +0100, "Hairy One Kenobi"
<abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote: