Williams has no (pin)BALLS! GO SEGA GO!
Edd Dicker
I am sorry to see in many of the postings that pinball (as we once knew
it) will be missed by many since Willams has embraced Pinball 2000 and CC
will be the last traditional pin from them. Poor Old Harry must be
spinning in his grave!
I have been following the pros and cons of it all for some time and
reserved jusdement 'til now....as we all know, it is all about just one
thing, bottom line, straight forward, MONEY. Score a big one for the Bean
Counters!
I played p2k with an open mind but it just doesn't do it for me. I look at
it, it looks like a mutant. Playing it feels like I have betrayed a
faithful old friend and frankly, I prefer the real physics of a
traditional pinball, not just making the same shots to hidden bumpers
trying to follow the action on a video screen while the ball is lost in
view somewhere. Give me Attack any days over the Revenge! I like to see
what am doing.
May it be said the last heydays of pinball were in the late 90's when
Richie and Lawlor were in their ABSOLUTE prime and SUPERPIN was king of
the hill. Oh, SUperPin, that was a fad, didn't you know.
(I feel ashamed to play the last offerings by Lawlor and feel his trip
after TZ to clear his head may have left him light in the loafers, and
don't flame me becuase of my comment, just IMHO)
Williams, I wish you well in your latest endevor, but seeing South Park (a
fad we all know but at least it still proves a good game can be had) and
the latest HD ready to rock-and-roll, I'd be sure to bet my money on SEGA!
One last comment to kill off p2k...I will be damned if I keep pumping in
$0.75 into a machine that has it's outlanes all the way up and not know
what the hell I'm suppose to be shooting for with the display changing
faster than you can say Spin Harry Spin!
Comments welcomed as always!
See you all in York!
Edd Dicker
Boag1
Pat's offerings may not be as testosterone-laden as Steve Ritchie's but to pan
all his post-TZ stuff as "light in the loafers?" You must be joking. SURELY
you don't think of Safecracker as a loss in the world of pinball. It's a
magnificent piece of work. Undeniably good. In the "9" category.
Road Show? Lousy? Negatory. I'm not a country music fan myself, but this
game was good Lawlor stuff. Lotsa shots, lotsa depth, lotsa challenge. Try
playing a RS with "long path" enabled, at a 6.5 degree angle, on a freshly
cleaned and waxed playfield. "Light in the loafers"--my eye!
Try No Good Gofers on for size. Yeah, that Hole-in-One shot was a breeze, eh?
Multiball couldn't have been easier, right? Getting 18 holes completed can be
done by a half-drunken monkey! Perhaps the theme itself was kiddie-based, but
the gameplay was not! While the art by John Youssi was a bad departure (IMHO),
the play's the thing.
Good night! Pat as "Light in the loafers?" Next thing you know you'll be
comparing Steve Ritchie to the Fairy Princess!
Put DOWN the crack pipe. =)
Aron
Street maintainence instructions for pinball: 1. Unlock and open coin door
2. Remove coin box and empty contents 3. Replace coin box and shut door 4.
Lock coin door. Congratulations! You're a pinball tech in Detroit! Not that
I'm bitter.
Mf101723
>May it be said the last heydays of pinball were in the late 90's
that far back, huh?
Joe Schober
>I played p2k with an open mind but it just doesn't do it for me.
That's perfectly fair. Different strokes for different folks and all that.
>I look at it, it looks like a mutant.
Kinda sorta. The body (the part we should care most about, since that's where
the balls live) is virtually identical to any recent pinball body, just a
couple inches shorter. The backbox is fatter, yes. Is that unattractive?
Does it affect your ability to play?
>Playing it feels like I have betrayed a faithful old friend and
>frankly, I prefer the real physics of a traditional pinball [...]
Eh? Last I checked, WMS didn't change any laws of physics when creating
Pin2000. :-) There are still 1 1/16" steel balls running around a wooden
playfield at 6.5 degrees hitting flippers, slingshots, standups, even a drop
target. Just because some of those physical objects may be obscured doesn't
affect the physics.
--Joe
Randall Adams
sure - Sega is getting better, and that is good for us!
Good Gaming!
Randy
Matt Magnasco
Edd Dicker <fun...@aol.com> wrote:
>Hi All!
>
>I am sorry to see in many of the postings that pinball (as we once knew
>it) will be missed by many since Willams has embraced Pinball 2000 and CC
>will be the last traditional pin from them. Poor Old Harry must be
>spinning in his grave!
>
>I have been following the pros and cons of it all for some time and
>reserved jusdement 'til now....as we all know, it is all about just one
>thing, bottom line, straight forward, MONEY. Score a big one for the Bean
>Counters!
Correct. Because if P2K was not making money off RFM and SWE1, Williams
would be out of the pinball business ENTIRELY (for some indefinite
period of time). Williams is trying a new idea to get the pinball
division some revenue, and, at least initially and from reports, it's
working.
This is called -- tada! -- INNOVATION, people. Just like flippers,
alphanumeric displays, and dot matrices, the video screen is a new
innovation.
>I played p2k with an open mind but it just doesn't do it for me. I look at
>it, it looks like a mutant. Playing it feels like I have betrayed a
>faithful old friend and frankly, I prefer the real physics of a
>traditional pinball, not just making the same shots to hidden bumpers
How does P2K violate the laws of physics? For the more obtuse in the
audience, P2K is STILL PINBALL. It has a video screen integrated into
the action, and, yes, it might not be integrated perfectly (the dark
back half of the playfield syndome), but you are still playing pinball
in four dimensions, in real space-time.
>trying to follow the action on a video screen while the ball is lost in
>view somewhere. Give me Attack any days over the Revenge! I like to see
>what am doing.
This is a game-specific flaw, not a P2K-in-general flaw.
>One last comment to kill off p2k...I will be damned if I keep pumping in
>$0.75 into a machine that has it's outlanes all the way up and not know
>what the hell I'm suppose to be shooting for with the display changing
>faster than you can say Spin Harry Spin!
That's an operator issue.
--
----------Matt Magnasco----------http://teriyaki.resnet.gatech.edu/matt----
*GRADUATING* civil engineering grad student at Georgia Tech Inst. of nology
Hablas LART? Parlai LART? Sprechen sie LART? No? Then don't spam me.
"You don't need luck if you're good." _No Fear_ pinball machine
Mf101723
>>will be the last traditional pin from them. Poor Old Harry must be
>>spinning in his grave!
I would think that Harry Wiliams, who started out building games with batteries
and phone buzzers in them, would look at Pinball 2000 and get a little tear in
his eye, seeing his offspring has lasted over 50 years, and then he'd put a
couple of freakin quarters in the slot and try it out.
josh kaplan
always seem to feature the latest techology. I'd love to see EM's back in
the arcades, but they wouldn't make any money for the operators, and
wouldn't do much to help pinball stay in the arcades.
Josh
Mf101723 wrote in message <19991003031048...@ng-fl1.aol.com>...
larry
> after TZ to clear his head may have left him light in the loafers, and
> don't flame me becuase of my comment, just IMHO)
No flame, but you're off your rocker (ok, small flame :)
We recently got a NGG pin and it's a blast.. every bit as good as his
earlier machines, and the sound/DMD package rocks. My only
disappointment was the jet bumper layout.. you can only get there by a
putting green eject, so the table-space is less used than it should.
Other than that, the game is very fun and exciting.. dropping a
Hole-in-One during the wizard mode is a great rush (the sound/lightshow
doesn't hurt either :) ... the rockin' metal tunes are cool too.
Lawlor's last WPC game.. definitly a keeper.
I didn't think the art was all that bad.. Not near MM quality, but
still good.
Dave Stambaugh
plenty-o-fun. Don't know why it didn't catch on.
-dave
Edd Dicker
but caught my interest enough to repost) but alas...we all are different
and Williams has a right to do as it pleases with its own products. It is
about the bottom line and yes, innovation. But please, when you cross two
different technoligies (pin and video) you get a mutant, not something
new...What was HyperBall about? And what about that wierd Williams/Stern
faces ad way back when? And SuperPin? Maybe I expect too much but for
awhile there, TAF, ST:TNG and TZ were the best WMS had to offer, ever! (in
the digital age, not to forget EM's and SS's, they had their pin
hall-o-famers as well).
I might as well be off my rocker but I have sure stimulated the feedback
with my heading, which was the intention. Pinball to all is alive and
well, no matter who'se side you are on...People who love pinball, and
those others who play mutants (:-). (<--come on now, that was a joke)
As for that posting:
c...@provide.net <cfhNO...@provide.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:0a0133f8...@usw-ex0102-009.remarq.com...
> (being sort of new to pinball)...
> back in 1976/1977, when solid state pinball was first being offered,
> how was the acceptance? does this compare to the acceptance (or
> non-acceptance!) of pinball 2000?
I was living in Spain when SS was introduced around '76/'77
I think the biggest negative was the fact that they allowed the price to
jump up. Plus, the 3 ball game was soon introduced - that was RADICAL man. I
was a bit pissed off by a) losing two balls (as most blokes would be I
guess), and b) Having to pay almost twice as much for a game.
As far as game play went, they were better. But, strangely 'electronic' in
nature, i.e. they didn't have the same personality that EMs had.
You certainly had a lot more difficulty playing them continuously until they
overheated and went haywire.
Some SS pintables were simpler than EMs, but soon SS pintables just left EMs
behind.
Nope, SS->P2K is a real playfield change, whereas EM->SS meant for more
interesting playfields.
At the mo, P2K is a more primitive game than SS.
I reckon they can still keep the reflected CRT, but they need to restrict it
to scores (to take up less virtual playfield space) when not used. I mean it
should work like the current DMDs, i.e. scores except when doing a video
mode or special effect. You can easily darken the playfield under the
reflection when the CRT is on, and light up the playfield under the
reflection when the CRT is just showing score. Not a problem if they do it
right. I wanna playfield I can play, not a bare bit so a piece of glass can
reflect a CRT.
Give me a wide body pintable like TZ with a reflected CRT that only displays
a small score most of the time, and yup, I'd buy one. But, RFM and SW:E1 are
not pintables worth playing in my book.
Boag1
pins he's done (some more than others, of course, but always really thought
he's the best in the industry [followed usually by Paul Faris]). Usually
John's style of art is pretty consistent: high on detail and crisp as the day
is long.
But NGG was, well, a departure, and not a welcome one at that. A very
DIFFERENT style of artwork...one that I didn't appreciate. Hey, that's fine.
I don't think much of Degas or Picasso, yet I think Monet was fabulous. While
the art "suited" the theme of NGG, I didn't care for the thick lines, the WAY
too cartoony look, the jaggedness. It's just not the quality I've come to
expect from John.
Now, I say this knowing FULL WELL that he was working on Medieval Madness
pretty much at the same time he was doing NGG. And somewhere along the line,
when doing many projects, one isn't going to be as good as the next. You're
SOOOOO right when you say that Medieval Madness has GREAT art. I personally
think its John's best. That backglass is nothing short of stunning. And the
side art on the cabinet, and the playfield art...need I say more?
But NGG? I'll pass on that type of art. It was, shall we say, disappointing.
But I liked the game itself quite a bit. If "bad art" is the worst thing I can
say about a game, then it HAS to be a decent game, as I'm QUITE the critical
guy. =)
For Amusement Only
INC!!!!
--
Jim Tolbert
For Amusement Only
1010 Grayson St.
Berkeley, CA 94710
510-548-2300
510-548-8904FAX
podu...@erols.com
got 2168 points on that little beauty, I think. Then it started
malfunctioning to hell and I said Fuck getting it repaired and I killed
the damn thing.
I thought it was so damn cute.
Marvin Giesting
Yeah, uh huh, sure you did.
--
Marvin
*********************************
Marvin Giesting
Physics & Chemistry Teacher
Connersville High School
1100 Spartan Drive
Connersville, IN 47331
mgie...@fayette.k12.in.us
http://fayette.k12.in.us/~mgiestin
Wanna learn physics? Play pinball !
*********************************
Gregg Woodcock
: NGG is a real sleeper. Despite the "kid's theme", it's very challenging and
: plenty-o-fun. Don't know why it didn't catch on.
Because Golf, as a theme, SUCKS. I tried it once and even with a
decent playfield and OK gimmicks/toys (spinner/ramp/gophers) the
golfing theme really turned me off (same problem as No Fear except
that NF is a MUCH weaker game than NGG).
--
THANX...Gregg day 972.684.7380 night UNLIST/PUBL TEXAS NOT CANADA!
wood...@nortelnetworks.com or wood...@fastlane.net
*CLASSIC VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR BUY/SELL/TRADE NON-COMPUTER (ARCADE/HOME)*
"If you quote me on this I'll have to deny it; I won't remember because
I have such a bad memory. Not only that, but my memory is *terrible*."
Kellie
On 4-Oct-1999, podu...@erols.com wrote:
> I had one once. It was a Gottlieb Rack-a-Ball, I think it was called. I
> got 2168 points on that little beauty, I think. Then it started
> malfunctioning to hell and I said Fuck getting it repaired and I killed
> the damn thing.
> I thought it was so damn cute.
But you killed it? You're one sick puppy.
:)
Kellie
--
SkyBin Amusements
Tulsa, OK
http://www.skybinamusements.com
JonHey
SEGA PINBALL BECOMES STERN PINBALL!
(posted on Monday, October 4, 1999 -- 11AM)
In a move that resonates with pinball history, Sega Pinball President Gary
Stern (through a corporate entity) has purchased the Melrose Park, Ill.,
pinball factory that he runs from Sega Enterprises and will rename the company
Stern Pinball Inc. Future products will bear the Stern name, while current Sega
Pinball games will continue to carry the Sega name pursuant to a short-term
license agreement. Stern Pinball will continue to make pinball and redemption
games and to manufacture under contract coin-op video games for Sega. "Although
pinball remains an important part of the coin-op business, pinball is not a
core business for Sega," said Al Stone, president of Sega Enterprises USA. "We
are sure that Gary and his staff will continue the success they have been
bringing to pinball with the last models."
"We have appreciated the years we have been a unit of Sega," said Gary. "We
will continue in our development of and commitment to Mechanical Action
Pinball. I have grown up in the pinball business. I am thrilled with this
opportunity to continue plying the trade my father taught me." Gary Stern,
along with his late father (and pinball scion) Sam Stern, first opened Stern
Electronics around 1978 after purchasing the former coin-op factory Chicago
Dynamic Industries (Chi’ Coin). They made pinball machines and other coin-op
equipment, including a jukebox at one time. The company was later sold to Data
East and then to Sega, although Gary has remained at the helm since the
company’s founding. Through those years, private investors in the factory have
also included coin-op luminaries like Al Simon and Marty Bromley.
Congratulations, Gary, we wish you well as one of the true keepers of the
pinball flame!
Previous Instant RePlay Items (including AMOA/Fun Expo show coverage)
...for on-line news, check the pages from News Digest, Hot Off the Press, etc.
at our site, accessible through the Current Issue page. Watch this page for
news postings on a frequent and regular basis in between magazine editions.
© All contents of this page and the entire RePlay Magazine website at
http://www.replaymag.com and http://www.replaymagazine.com Copyright 1999
RePlay Magazine. All rights reserved.
Fred_K
For Amusement Only <pinba...@home.com> wrote
> Please be advised that SEGA PINBALL is now known as STERN PINBALL
> INC!!!!
>
>
> Jim Tolbert
> For Amusement Only
> 1010 Grayson St.
> Berkeley, CA 94710
> 510-548-2300
> 510-548-8904FAX
Are you serious, Jim?
Fred
Tx
Scott Piehler
site. The URL:
http://www.replaymag.com/instant.htm
This is fascinating. I wonder how this will affect Stern's ability to
get licenses. Did they have access to more $$ under Sega?
If nothing else, it's cool to have that name back where it belongs, on
a pinball machine, not behind the scenes.
Scott
On 05 Oct 1999 06:00:21 GMT, jon...@aol.comnospam (JonHey) wrote:
>Last Updated: Monday, October 4, 1999 -- 11AM
>
>SEGA PINBALL BECOMES STERN PINBALL!
>
>(posted on Monday, October 4, 1999 -- 11AM)
>
>In a move that resonates with pinball history, Sega Pinball President Gary
>Stern (through a corporate entity) has purchased the Melrose Park, Ill.,
>pinball factory that he runs from Sega Enterprises and will rename the company
>Stern Pinball Inc. Future products will bear the Stern name, while current Sega
>Pinball games will continue to carry the Sega name pursuant to a short-term
>license agreement. Stern Pinball will continue to make pinball and redemption
>games and to manufacture under contract coin-op video games for Sega.
Scott Piehler: ros...@mindspring.com
An archive of pinball rulesheets, as well as a listing of
newer pinball machines in the Atlanta area can be found at:
http://www.mindspring.com/~rosco29/pinball.htm
Dan Wilga
> Wow! I couldn't believe this, but there it is on RePlay magazine's
> site. The URL:
>
> http://www.replaymag.com/instant.htm
>
> This is fascinating. I wonder how this will affect Stern's ability to
> get licenses. Did they have access to more $$ under Sega?
>
> If nothing else, it's cool to have that name back where it belongs, on
> a pinball machine, not behind the scenes.
>
I suppose the important question is: Will the games still suck?
Dan Wilga dwilga...@mtholyoke.edu
** Remove the REMOVE in my address address to reply reply **
For Amusement Only
fax from SEGA PINBAll. The letterhead read STERN PINBALL INC..Also look
at the Harley T-shirts given away at recent AMOA show. We noticed that
they read SPI which could have been SEGA PINBALL or STERN PINBALL. We
figured Gary was giving us a subtle hint of the change. So, Harley will
be the last pin produced under the name SEGA.
--
John Johnson
> Dave Stambaugh (pin...@earthlink.net) wrote:
> : NGG is a real sleeper. Despite the "kid's theme", it's very challenging and
> : plenty-o-fun. Don't know why it didn't catch on.
>
> Because Golf, as a theme, SUCKS. I tried it once and even with a
> decent playfield and OK gimmicks/toys (spinner/ramp/gophers) the
> golfing theme really turned me off (same problem as No Fear except
> that NF is a MUCH weaker game than NGG).
I like NGG, although I didn't the first two times I played it. I think it's
under-rated, and I personally like the theme a lot, too. Maybe the nay sayers
need to be trapped in an airport with a working NGG and non-working TZ, Goldeneye,
and CV's for a few hours so they'll learn to appreciate it. :)
-John
Ryan Avery
> This is fascinating. I wonder how this will affect Stern's ability to
> get licenses. Did they have access to more $$ under Sega?
This is amazing!! Who would have thought that Stern would ever pop back in business?
I guess, now that Joe K. is gone, Stern pretty much has the company to himself
(though I'm hardly familiar with SPI's internal organization...). It probably won't
mean much in terms of overall feel, but the games could get a LOT better.
I do agree that this will affect their purchace of lisences, thus it might mean the
first non-liscensed from DE/Sega/Stern since Checkpoint. This is not a bad thing,
IMO. It is very wierd, however, since WMS used to be non-lisenced while DE was
lisenced. Looks like the tables have turned...
> If nothing else, it's cool to have that name back where it belongs, on
> a pinball machine, not behind the scenes.
Now all we need is one of Gottlieb's relatives to start up again, and it'll be like
old times...
--
Ryan Avery
Ryan....@Colorado.edu
http://ucsub.colorado.edu/~averyr
http://www.mp3.com/ryanavery
ICQ# 17490198
Boag1
was out of place on a pin. Video games? Sure, they can have them. But a Sega
pinball? Never sat well with me. Not that they didn't make some good games,
but the "All licenses, all the time." thing got REALLY stale. Sometimes it
seemed that their motto was "Why make a game good when it's licensed?"
It's a good early sign when you take a look at the new Harley Davidson pin.
It's a quality piece, plays well, and is quite satisfying. Captures the HD
theme VERY well (if a little cheesily...that cop is pure cheese). Lotsa fun.
I haven't enjoyed a Sega pin this much since Apollo 13, or been nearly as
excited about it. And knowing that the nameplate is going to be Stern makes me
feel better.
Will the games be better? Let's hope so. Let's look at the positives.
Positive Numero Uno: Joe K. is GONE! No more horribly trite micro-management.
No more "Celebrity" pins, which wasted valuable time and effort for so little.
This HAS to be a good thing, IMHO. Positive Number Two: Recent changes have
been decent. The addition of people such as Jon Norris is good stuff. Can't
wait to see what he's able to do with a decent budget and a little more time
for development. Positive Number Three: The existing people there are QUITE
capable of making quality pins. Apollo 13, Guns 'N' Roses, Star Wars, Rocky
and Bullwinkle. All are games I appreciate and think are good stuff. So it's
not as though they CAN'T make good pins.
I've gotta say I'm excited. The recent offerings on the P2K format from WMS
don't do anything for me. While the book hasn't been entirely written on P2K,
the first chapter is boring me so far. Contrast that with Harley, with its
SATISFYING shots, nice music, good play mechanics, some of the best playfield
lighting I've ever seen from a Sega/Data East pin, amongst other positive
traits.
May the Stern name be done proud, not dragged through the mud. Do it up right,
folks. And if you want to change the flippers to get a better feel, that's
fine by me! Just a suggestion...;)
John Butler
several excellent points about pins, and did NOT mention WCS? Aron, is this
a change coming on?
John
</tongue in cheek>
--
______________________
John Butler
Arizona State University
Technology Support Analyst
Boag1 <bo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991005170913...@ng-fo1.aol.com...
<SNIP>
Kellie
On 5-Oct-1999, "John Butler" <john....@asu.edu> wrote:
> I want everyone to notice that for the first time in months Aron made
> several excellent points about pins, and did NOT mention WCS? Aron, is
> this
> a change coming on?
>
> John
> </tongue in cheek>
I always love Arons post and agree with him about 85% of the time. You have
to admit, he's a very good writer. Good punctuation, intelligent, rarely
loses control. Put all his posts together and you'd come up with a very
good story on pinball. Aron, whether I agree with you or not, I thoroughly
enjoy your posts!
Boyd & Michelle Bottorff
> This is fascinating. I wonder how this will affect Stern's ability to get
> licenses. Did they have access to more $$ under Sega?
Better yet, are they going to be able to NOT put out a liscensed game if
they feel like it? (At least their recent games have had liscenses with
longer-term recognition... something good for ops a couple years down
the road).
> If nothing else, it's cool to have that name back where it belongs, on a
> pinball machine, not behind the scenes.
Only if they put out decent machines. Not something the name has a good
track record of.
Fred_K
<heimer1atmindspringdotcom (John R. Miller)> wrote
> Now they can make a Flight 2000 2000.
>
> John Miller
> >>
> >>SEGA PINBALL BECOMES STERN PINBALL!
> >>
F2K2K! I've got my quarters ready!!!!
Fred
Tx
Marcel Gonzalez
gee.. I hope they come out with Lightning 2000... Meteor 2000... etc. etc..
(not kidding, really)
Marcel
Flipper-pinball game collector:
Xenon - First sexy female talking game - 1980 Bally Mfg. Co.
Firepower - First multiball(tm) game - 1980 Williams Electronics, Inc.
Black Hole - 1981 D. Gottlieb & Co.
Please take the "nojunk" off to email me.
Fred_K
> fax from SEGA PINBAll. The letterhead read STERN PINBALL INC..Also look
> at the Harley T-shirts given away at recent AMOA show. We noticed that
> they read SPI which could have been SEGA PINBALL or STERN PINBALL. We
> figured Gary was giving us a subtle hint of the change. So, Harley will
> be the last pin produced under the name SEGA.
>
> > > For Amusement Only
> > > 1010 Grayson St.
> > > Berkeley, CA 94710
> > > 510-548-2300
> > > 510-548-8904FAX
That's great. Any hints as to what the first STERN pin will be? Any
guesses?
We finally got some NEWS on this group!
Fred
Tx
David O'Neil
>
>
> > If nothing else, it's cool to have that name back where it belongs, on a
> > pinball machine, not behind the scenes.
>
> Only if they put out decent machines. Not something the name has a good
> track record of.
I hope you're commenting on Sega's stuff. Stern machines are just as reliable
as the Bally's of their era. The Stern games were even better in that they
were more creative and fun to play over and over again.
David O.
Big Time Stern Fan
Boag1
Boag1
WCS!
While I love WCS, I don't mention it in ALL my posts. Just 99.9%. You've
gotta have SOME variety.
Mf101723
grave!
I always found Stern's digital games to be overall very good, early Chicago
Coin EM days are best forgotten though.
Edd Dicker
>I've gotta say I'm excited. The recent offerings on the P2K format from WMS
don't do anything for me.
>
> Aron
I knew it, I knew it. (Quote taken completely out of context) I have a
quote from the man himself and I am going for it! P2K's book still has
many chapters but thus far it is not doing it for "the man" himself! (Got
you back Aron :-))
Anyway:
I am glad to see Stern back on the pinball scene again.
Welcome back Gary and gang, we have missed you and most importantly, you
have come upon the scene just in time! I wish you much success on your
venture and will easily offer you my quarters when needed! Just don't go
for the new WMS standard of $0.75 a clip.
Guess somebody has to change the post to:
Watch out Williams, there's a new kid back in town, GO STERN GO!
Edd
David Marston
mbot...@sprintmail.com (Boyd or Michelle Bottorff) writes:
>Scott Piehler <ros...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> This is fascinating. I wonder how this will affect Stern's ability to get
>> licenses. Did they have access to more $$ under Sega?
>
>Better yet, are they going to be able to NOT put out a liscensed game if
>they feel like it? (At least their recent games have had liscenses with
>longer-term recognition... something good for ops a couple years down
>the road).
>
in favor of the all-license policy. I have worries that are similar to
Scott's: will they have enough development money? They need to get the
tournament system (KPGCTE and follow-on games) into production, which
probably needs further R&D work, and they are trying to make traditional
pinballs with big toys, but they have weaker distribution than WMS.
.................David Marston mar...@coos.dartmouth.EDU
Boyd & Michelle Bottorff
I can only remember one Stern machine I ever liked.
David O'Neil
> I can only remember one Stern machine I ever liked.
OK...............you've got our attention. Which one?
David O.
-Coons,D.W.
Edd Dicker <fun...@nac.net> wrote:
>
>Anyway:
>I am glad to see Stern back on the pinball scene again.
>Welcome back Gary and gang, we have missed you and most importantly, you
>have come upon the scene just in time! I wish you much success on your
>venture and will easily offer you my quarters when needed! Just don't go
>for the new WMS standard of $0.75 a clip.
>
Where do you think Gary has been?????
I'll tell you, he has been with Joe at Sega for years. So this isn't
exactly new blood coming back into the field. Hopefully, we will see
some exiciting games from Stern. But with the limited staff they have
I think their resources might be tight.
After all, Lonnie can only do so much. -)
Don Coons
dco...@lucent.com
John Butler
--
______________________
John Butler
Arizona State University
Technology Support Analyst
David Marston <mar...@coos.dartmouth.edu> wrote in message
news:7tf6i8$lm4$1...@merrimack.Dartmouth.EDU...
> In article <1999100518...@1cust106.tnt1.springfield.il.da.uu.net>
> mbot...@sprintmail.com (Boyd or Michelle Bottorff) writes:
> >Scott Piehler <ros...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> >> This is fascinating. I wonder how this will affect Stern's ability to
get
> >> licenses. Did they have access to more $$ under Sega?
> >
> >Better yet, are they going to be able to NOT put out a liscensed game if
> >they feel like it? (At least their recent games have had liscenses with
> >longer-term recognition... something good for ops a couple years down
> >the road).
> >
> Based on his remarks at prior Pinball Expos, I think that Gary Stern is
> in favor of the all-license policy. I have worries that are similar to
> Scott's: will they have enough development money?
When I read the article I got the feeling that this is a split in philosophy
more then business. It sounded like Stern would continue doing cabinet
buiding for Sega video games etc, but that the pinball side would not be
under the Sega umbrella.
> They need to get the
> tournament system (KPGCTE and follow-on games) into production, which
> probably needs further R&D work, and they are trying to make traditional
> pinballs with big toys, but they have weaker distribution than WMS.
I think that they need a nice launching pad pin. I was a business major in
school, so here goes some business speak.... I think this move should have
been made before the Harley pin was released. Take a look at some other
collectables that have the Harley name on them. My wife bought a Harley
Barbie two years ago for $70, and it is now worth (in the books anyhow)
nearly $600. That is for a doll. One of the distributors here in town is
selling pins to the Harley dealerships, and is selling quite a few through
that market.
Now that Harley is not an option, maybe they should release Big Bang Bar and
Kingpin, I still say those two pins would have turned the corner for Capcom.
Still want a Kingpin.
I think that this move Stern made will help the industry. I also think that
the P2K machines will help the industry. There are so many cases in history
where inovation in one direction, has lead to great inovation in another
portion of the industry. You guys may laugh and say that they should just
add a joystick and make the thing a video game, with moderate pinball
action. Ever heard of Baby Pac? Granny and the Gator's?(sp)? There is room
for diversity. If the P2K draws new players, like I have seen it doing,
maybe they will want to say,"Hey maybe that other style without the monitor
is cool too." That would be great for the industry.
I think that we are looking at a great time in the pinball time line. I
think both companies have made moves to continue pinball as an amusement
source.
Sorry, had to speak a bit of my mind,
</soap_box>
<Flame_Suit_Option_Enabled>
John
> .................David Marston mar...@coos.dartmouth.EDU
Edd Dicker
dw...@ihgp162h116.ih.lucent.com (-Coons,D.W.) wrote:
> Where do you think Gary has been?????
>
> I'll tell you, he has been with Joe at Sega for years. So this isn't
> exactly new blood coming back into the field. Hopefully, we will see
> some exiciting games from Stern. But with the limited staff they have
> I think their resources might be tight.
>
> After all, Lonnie can only do so much. -)
>
> Don Coons
> dco...@lucent.com
I was mentioning the premise that Stern now has it's foot back in the
door, as Stern, not Sega. Sorry for any mis-communication.
I also realize it will be a limited staff and more over production runs
but with the only alternative being WMS, I will gladly seek out any new
Stern to play over and over.
I'd be glad to give a hand if needed!
Edd
Boyd & Michelle Bottorff
> > I can only remember one Stern machine I ever liked.
>
> OK...............you've got our attention. Which one?
Meteor.
That doesn't mean there weren't others-- just I don't remember any
others I liked.
David O'Neil
Boyd & Michelle Bottorff wrote:
> > > I can only remember one Stern machine I ever liked.
> Meteor.
> That doesn't mean there weren't others-- just I don't remember any
> others I liked.
If you come across STARGAZER or NINEBALL, try them. They *should*
change your mind.
Edd Dicker
mf10...@aol.com (Mf101723) wrote:
> > You guys may laugh and say that they should just
> >add a joystick and make the thing a video game, with moderate pinball
> >action. Ever heard of Baby Pac? Granny and the Gator's?(sp)? There is room
> >for diversity.
>
Damn it! Who let the cat of the bag. Someone at WMS is gonna pay for this one!!
Granny and the Gator's P2K is due out be the end of the month!
Baby Pac P2K is still in R&D.
Edd
Mf101723
>add a joystick and make the thing a video game, with moderate pinball
>action. Ever heard of Baby Pac? Granny and the Gator's?(sp)? There is room
>for diversity.
The 'pinvids' of that era were more like desperation moves rather than for the
sake of diversity; it was like, geez, all the pins are gathering dust and
people are in LINE to play pacman, we gotta DO somethin! OK, let's make
another video game and get rid of some pinball parts inventory at the same
time.
Stelter
Here's my list of faves...
Meteor - Classic early solid state pinball. Just the sounds from this game
make you sweat!
Flight 2000 - one of the first "talkers". Wild playfield layout that in
it's day was every bit as tough as anything on an IJ or TZ.
Orbitor 1 - Just play one, or even just look at one! Possibly the most
radical pinball machine design EVER!
Split Second - Multi ball! Speech! Metal ramps! COOL!
Free Fall - Similar layout to Flight 2000. Challenging game to play!
Nugent - Crappy game. I just dig the Ted man!
I'm not saying that these games will replace your STNG. I'm just saying that
if you compare a Meteor to a Bobby Orr, Evel Knevil, or Kiss (I'm talking
about design, innovation , and playability - NOT current price on Ebay),
the Meteor will be the winner HANDS DOWN! These are VERY reliable games.
Just my 2 cents ( but Alan Greenspan might raise it to 3 cents to control
the rapidly rising numbers in my pinball collection).
Later,
Floyd
Boyd & Michelle Bottorff wrote in message
<1999100617...@1cust91.tnt1.springfield.il.da.uu.net>...
>David O'Neil <davesSPAM...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>
>> > I can only remember one Stern machine I ever liked.
>>
>> OK...............you've got our attention. Which one?
>
bKesh
sound is the same on both machines and it does make the game play more exciting
and intense. I'm keeping my eyes out for a Flight 2000 myself. I guess for me
the Sterns really remind me of pinball as a kid... I always remember them being
fast, furious, and all-around fun games to play.
Evan Wessel
--
Pre-1978 pinball pix and tech tips at www.mercuryamusement.com
Evan Wessel
playfield parts did not hold up to the action and there were serious
service issues. Sheared screws from flipper stops, broken posts and
guides, targets etc, etc...Evan
Dr. Moze
dwilga...@mtholyoke.edu (Dan Wilga) wrote:
> I suppose the important question is: Will the games still suck?
I for one am glad that someone still wants to make "Mechanical Action"
pinballs. And I'll take any of the SEGA pins over the first 2 P2k releases
from Williams, which (IMO) have sacvrificed interesting playfields and
*flow* for neat-o video graphics. I cast my vote for the new STERN unless
Williams gets a clue and makes a P2k machine that has a real playfield with
features that go beyond the "bang the video screen in the middle for every
mode" focus.
--
Dr. Moze <drm...@pressroom.com>
g.brewer
Dr. Moze wrote in message ...
Don't think that's going to happen. Since
that's where the monitor is and the projections
are it limits the shots to being there also.
Have gone back to RFM four times to give
it a fair try, and will probably never play it
again. Last time won a credit for one of
the high scores and didn't have enough
interest to stay and play it off.
Am very interested in what happens with
Stern.
Gary
>
>--
>
>Dr. Moze <drm...@pressroom.com>
Pinplayr
>I for one am glad that someone still wants to make "Mechanical Action"
>pinballs. And I'll take any of the SEGA pins over the first 2 P2k releases
>from Williams, which (IMO) have sacvrificed interesting playfields and
>*flow* for neat-o video graphics. I cast my vote for the new STERN unless
>Williams gets a clue and makes a P2k machine that has a real playfield with
>features that go beyond the "bang the video screen in the middle for every
>mode" focus.
OK I can't let this go by. Can you name a good Sega playfield and ruleset in
recent history? The P2K games certainly have their problems, but how does RFM
have any less "flow" than, say, South Park. South Park has even less flow than
pretty much any game in recent history. You have 2 shots that go to an
up-kicker, a big 2-inch-wide toilet shot, 2 gigantic holes, and ONE ramp that
leads back to the flipper, most of the time. That seems like one "flowing"
shot to me. Perhaps you have a better definition of flow? Do you actually
prefer the rules of South Park (a cheap Monster Bash ripoff anyway, guess Joe
had to get one last rip in there) to RFM's rules?
I'll assume for the sake of argument you've not played Harley Davidson, either.
There are a whopping TWO flowing shots in that game. One ramp, and one loop,
which is a through-the-bumpers loop anyway, so I'm sure lots of people will be
able to make that shot. Otherwise, there's a scoop, a NARROW thing to beat on
(novice-friendly, hardly), an up-kicker, and lots of drainy targets.
SWE1 certainly has flow on the ramps. It's pretty fun to shoot those over and
over. The rest of the playfield may be a bit barren, but I say it has more
flow than SP or HD. But again, since you did't define flow, I have no idea
what you're talking about.
Perhaps you can also explain the difference in flow between RFM and AFM while
we're at it. The playfields are quite similar in shot layout (as many people
have pointed out as a spot of criticism). Both have a middle shot, scoop, 2
loops and 2 ramps. If anything, AFM had a more dangerous middle than RFM does.
I can understand people not liking RFM for various reasons. If you're going to
tell me South Park is a better game, then I'll assume you're not a regular
pinball player. South Park earns a TON of money, no doubt about that. Does
that make it good? No. P2K earns a ton of money too. Does that make those
games good? No.
Perhaps you could better back up your argument a little better. What is flow?
What is fun about South Park, or any Sega game for that matter. Give me RFM
over pretty much any sega game ever.
David O'Neil
> I cast my vote for the new STERN unless
> Williams gets a clue and makes a P2k machine that has a real
> playfield with
> features that go beyond the "bang the video screen in the middle for every
> mode" focus.
> Dr. Moze <drm...@pressroom.com>
"Real Playfield"? Watch out Dr. Moze........Jeremy won't like that
terminology. ; )
David O.
Edd Dicker
drm...@pressroom.com (Dr. Moze) wrote:
> I for one am glad that someone still wants to make "Mechanical Action"
> pinballs. And I'll take any of the SEGA pins over the first 2 P2k releases
> from Williams, which (IMO) have sacvrificed interesting playfields and
> Williams gets a clue and makes a P2k machine that has a real playfield with
> features that go beyond the "bang the video screen in the middle for every
> mode" focus.
>
Well, Here's a post for reality! I happened upon my Big Book 'O Flyers
tonight (pun on Big 'O Beam) (oops, forget the trademark, WMS Industries,
don't want to get sued now) AND I noticed something special in them.
Does anyone Remember the following:
SuperPin? Pinmation? Token-Pin?
They all were breakthru's in pinball and the "first" of a series.
I guess "first" was also code for last.
SuperPin did have the Hall-of-Fame Steve Richie Game ST:TNG and TZ, two of
the BEST pins ever to come from WMS, both of which were SuperPin and the
last. (Funhouse was Pinmation but RoadShow came waaayyy after FH)
So, my point to all this....WMS has a history (I won't even go into
HyperBall) of innovation which I admire greatly...BUT....I don't want
something forced down my throat such as P2K is being done as the next best
(only) thing.
WMS tried it, it is a mutant, a freak, an expense to play. Let's move on
and give these people some real ideas on how to make a great pinball
machine. At a rumored cost of one million dollars to bring any new pin to
life, maybe WMS should start to look at the newsgroups for what average
people want to see, not what they THINK we want to see.
Edd
--
"SHOW-TIME"
MK DUD
1979-1983??
Mabey they can get Steve Kirk to do a modern "Classic" Stern design, just for
"old time's sake"?
How about "Meteor 2"?? Are you listening, Steve & Gary? I've allready got this
table in my head, and have been playing with it for about 7 years...
Michael Kelley
Duncan Brown
wrote:
>life, maybe WMS should start to look at the newsgroups for what average
>people want to see, not what they THINK we want to see.
rec.games.pinball is "average people"?!
Duncan
LBarry7637
So I went and bought a Sega Harley Davidson for my route.
I have spoke to a lot of average people, the players that play pinball at the
locations that I have. And the general consensus is they like PK2000. But, on
the other hand they also say they like "regular pinball" more. So what that
tells me is they are willing to try new things, but prefer the traditional game
of pinball.
So I hope that Williams will listen and produce games that people want to play.
Craig
Jef Lepine
<<much snipped>>
> Perhaps you could better back up your argument a little better. What is
> flow? What is fun about South Park, or any Sega game for that matter.
> Give me RFM over pretty much any sega game ever.
<<warning, opinions follow>>
Several SEGA games, to me, seem to have good flow. There are two recent
ones that stand out, Lost World:JP and Starship Troopers.
I would agree that SST shares many things with Medieval Madness, but I
still think it is one of SEGA's best efforts in a while. I also have a
soft spot for LW:JP. I like the rules and the speed of the game (very
fast).
My biggest problem with Williams games these days their multiball.
Multiball on WMS games is probably the biggest flaw. I can't think of one
WMS game where high scores can be acchieved without doing well on
multiball sans Junkyard. I just think it's pretty much a waste of rules to
put in a mode that risks draining but rewards you with much less than say
a jackpot (and an easy jackpot at that).
SEGA also suffers the same problem, but several of their games have modes
that are worth playing and quite lucrative as well. (Site B for example)
-Jef
Mike IGC
and
>Kingpin, I still say those two pins would have turned the corner for
Capcom.
>Still want a Kingpin.
>
I played Kingpin at PF 98. I couldn't stop playing it. I understand it
never made it to production, but I wonder how many protos are around.
--Mike
Mike IGC
>guesses?
How about Stern, from Stern. A game about the Howard Stern show. Every
mode involves trying to get strippers to take their clothes off in the
studio or making fun of Jackie. :^)
Just an idea.
--Mike
Boyd & Michelle Bottorff
> tonight (pun on Big 'O Beam) (oops, forget the trademark, WMS Industries,
> don't want to get sued now) AND I noticed something special in them.
>
> Does anyone Remember the following:
>
> SuperPin? Pinmation? Token-Pin?
>
> They all were breakthru's in pinball and the "first" of a series.
> I guess "first" was also code for last.
>
> SuperPin did have the Hall-of-Fame Steve Richie Game ST:TNG and TZ, two of
> the BEST pins ever to come from WMS, both of which were SuperPin and the
> last. (Funhouse was Pinmation but RoadShow came waaayyy after FH)
There were a bunch of superpins. They ranged from ST:TNG and TZ as the
most memorable to Popeye as the, uh, also most memorable.
> So, my point to all this....WMS has a history (I won't even go into
> HyperBall) of innovation which I admire greatly...BUT....I don't want
> something forced down my throat such as P2K is being done as the next best
> (only) thing.
>
> WMS tried it, it is a mutant, a freak, an expense to play. Let's move on
> and give these people some real ideas on how to make a great pinball
> machine. At a rumored cost of one million dollars to bring any new pin to
> life, maybe WMS should start to look at the newsgroups for what average
> people want to see, not what they THINK we want to see.
The newsgroups are NOT (underline, bold, big point typeface) an average.
The general skill level of the players here averages somewhat close, but
just under, Wizard level, with a number of players at Grand Master Arch
Magi level. We're the type of people who would care about games with
8-way combos, or would want a particular ramp to be 1cm less wide.
The ops I have talked to (ones who don't read the newsgroups) have all
been enthusiastic about the EARNINGS on the machines... unlike
safecracker.
Laurence
Boag1 <bo...@aol.com> wrote:
> If "bad art" is the worst thing I can say about a game, then it HAS to
> be a decent game, as I'm QUITE the critical guy. =)
I've only played one NGG, but bad art isn't the thing I remember about it.
(Personally, I don't mind the art, I feel that it suits the style of the
game quite well.)
My complaint about this machine is that it traps balls in the weirdest
places. At least once every five games I have to call the tech' to pull
the glass to get at a ball which has lodged itself in some part of the
machine you wouldn't think it could get into.
Favourite location so far, is in the wiring behind the lamps at the top
left of the playfield, I have managed to put at least four in there, but I
have also managed to lodge one IN the golf cart (don't ask how I did that
little trick I couldn't do it again in a hundred years, but the tech'
looked at me, looked at where the ball had got to, looked back at me,
shook his head sadly, and put a new ball into the machine rather than try
and prise the old one out), and one inside the "Hole in one" diverter
mechanism. I was rather worried about that one as the machine kept trying
to raise and lower the ramp with the ball wedged such that the ramp
couldn't move at all. I could see all kinds of damage being caused, but
once the ball was cleared (with everything switched OFF!!) a restart
showed that it hadn't suffered any ill effects.
Are all NGGs like this, or have the Gophers got at this one?
Laurence.
PS. Please excuse the spam trap. This username is clean at the moment, my
first one still gets spam two years after I stopped using it for news.
--
__ __ __ __ __ ___ _______ Release my ISP to Email me___________
|__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | /
| || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines
___________________________/ l...@TRargonetAP.co.uk
Jeremy Wilson
says...
>rec.games.pinball is "average people"?!
I dunno Duncan. I'll never understand why people in this newsgroup are under
the impression that they are the average pinball player.
The average player does *not* collect games, does *not* read newsgroups about
them, and does *not* attend conventions. Only abnormal *freaks* do this,
myself included.
Truly average people like P2K. I wish the people who are continuing to whine
and complain about it would stop. We get the point. WMS doesn't make games
for the 200-odd people (at most) who read this group, they make them for the
ganeral public. Get that through your thick skulls.
--
xe...@inforamp.net - Jeremy Wilson - Modern Pinball Game Collector
Wonder what's inside my wallet? http://www.inforamp.net/~xeno/wallet
Mf101723
>>people want to see, not what they THINK we want to see.
>
example of "average people" is the little kid who walked over while I was
playing a RFM and asked, "do you do any fighting in this game?"!
Joe Schober
>My biggest problem with Williams games these days their multiball.
>Multiball on WMS games is probably the biggest flaw. I can't think of one
>WMS game where high scores can be acchieved without doing well on
>multiball sans Junkyard. I just think it's pretty much a waste of rules to
>put in a mode that risks draining but rewards you with much less than say
>a jackpot (and an easy jackpot at that).
C'mon, you're joking about the WMS thing, right? I'll overlook the lack of
timeframe on your comment (there are plenty of WMS games that didn't have
multiball at all, and thus multiball wasn't a key to high scores :) and focus
on, say, 90's games.
Just off the top of my head, the following games had multiballs that were quite
moderately balanced with other scoring in the game:
- Addams Family. In most games you'll get the majority of your points
from modes and incidentals (Millions Plus, swamps), not from multiball.
- Twilight Zone. Somewhat more multiball-centric than Addams, but still
heavy reliance on modes. (OK, to be fully honest, your mega scoring
opportunities come from stacking a couple modes and then stacking a multiball
on top of that... does that count?)
- Star Trek TNG. Yes, multiballs can be lucrative, but so can some of the
modes. (Unfortunately, unlike the previous two games, I think the wizard mode
in STTNG is unbalancing.)
- Road Show. Again, lotsa points off modes, blasts, things like that.
Only moderate points off multiball.
- Johnny Mnemonic. Multiball's darn near worthless -- the real point
opportunity here is Spinner Millions... to the point of exponential insanity.
Ugh.
- Medieval Madness. Most of the time I ignore multiball jackpots and just
use the additional balls as more ammo with which to attack the castles --
that's where the big points are (plus that helps if you want any chance at
BftK).
Enough?
>SEGA also suffers the same problem, but several of their games have modes
>that are worth playing and quite lucrative as well. (Site B for example)
--Joe :)
Brian Blonder
if ever gets stuck.
I did experience the lamp at the top left playfield problem but just simply
adjusted how the
lamps sat on the ramp and the extent to which the switch sticks out from
below the ramp and I
have not had the problem in months.
The ball will also get stuck underneath the "hole in one ramp" during some
multiball modes,
but this is a temporary situation that corrects itself within seconds
(either the ramp raises and
the ball rolls out, or another ball kicks it out) and doesn't stop game play
since two or more balls
are on the playfield.
So, I would conclude that the ball stuck problems were the combination of
once in a lifetime shots
(into the cart...still can't picture this one) and the gophers messing
around with that particular game.
Laurence <l...@TRargonetAP.co.uk> wrote in message
news:494e55...@TRargonetAP.co.uk...
Steve Baumgarten
example of "average people" is the little kid who walked over while I was
playing a RFM and asked, "do you do any fighting in this game?"!
Now you see how prescient the REVENGE FROM MARS designers were, since
you could truthfully answer "yes" to this question.
Just don't tell the kid you're fighting as a cyber-President Lincoln,
since that might seem a little too weird to him...
"Finish him!"
"Sixteenth president wins!"
"Flawless!"
OK, it's not quite MORTAL KOMBAT, but it's something...
--
Steve Baumgarten | "New York... when civilization falls apart,
PANIX, New York, NY | remember, we were way ahead of you."
|
Email: s...@panix.com | - David Letterman
Edd Dicker
<s...@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <19991009235831...@ng-fm1.aol.com>
mf10...@aol.com (Mf101723) writes:
>
> example of "average people" is the little kid who walked over while I was
> playing a RFM and asked, "do you do any fighting in this game?"!
>
> Now you see how prescient the REVENGE FROM MARS designers were, since
> you could truthfully answer "yes" to this question.
>
> Just don't tell the kid you're fighting as a cyber-President Lincoln,
> since that might seem a little too weird to him...
>
> "Finish him!"
>
> "Sixteenth president wins!"
>
> "Flawless!"
>
> OK, it's not quite MORTAL KOMBAT, but it's something...
>
I'd be more afraid the kid would not know who good old Abe Lincoln was!
Edd
--
"SHOW-TIME"
David Gersic
>>>life, maybe WMS should start to look at the newsgroups for what average
>>>people want to see, not what they THINK we want to see.
>>
>
>playing a RFM and asked, "do you do any fighting in this game?"!
Hopefully you were able to start one of the Jedi-vs-Seth modes right about
then...?
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| |
|David Gersic dgersic_@_niu.edu |
|Systems Programmer Northern Illinois University |
| |
| Lisp: Long, Irritating Strings of Parenthesis |
| |
|I'm tired of receiving crap in my mailbox, so the E-mail address has been|
|munged to foil the junkmail bots. Humans will figure it out on their own.|
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Joe Schober
(mf10...@aol.com writes:)
>>example of "average people" is the little kid who walked over while I was
>>playing a RFM and asked, "do you do any fighting in this game?"!
>
>Hopefully you were able to start one of the Jedi-vs-Seth modes right about
>then...?
Jedi-vs-Seth battle mode is only in RFM 1.3 and higher, which isn't released
yet.
--Joe ;)
pins_...@my-deja.com
- near the base of the black, three light tree. I took a small,
self-stick, clear rubber "thingy" (usually used to cushion the bottom of
furniture items) and strategically placed it to eliminate the trap.
Speaking of the black, three light tree - the bottom light kept
getting knocked out of alignment. So I added a small wire brace,
vertically secured to the nearest PF nut, to prevent the light from
being hit backwards. I can upload a pic if anyone's interested.
Terry Nelson
--
Monnster Baash, No Good Gofers, Staar Trrek The Next Genuration,
Twylight Zonne, Honted Hause
In article <494e55...@TRargonetAP.co.uk>,
Laurence <l...@TRargonetAP.co.uk> wrote:
> I've only played one NGG, but bad art isn't the thing I remember about
it.
> (Personally, I don't mind the art, I feel that it suits the style of
the
> game quite well.)
>
> My complaint about this machine is that it traps balls in the weirdest
> places.
> Favourite location so far, is in the wiring behind the lamps at the
top
> left of the playfield, ...
> Are all NGGs like this, or have the Gophers got at this one?
>
> Laurence.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Pierre Ostiguy
When I bought mine , they gave me a kit with 20 parts in it to install on
the machine.
Some parts look like little balls split in two about the size of a big pea.
They are stick ons.
I have not seen any ball trapped on mine since day one.
Pierre Ostiguy
MB NGG TOTAN AF TZ STTNG IJ TAXI BG TFTC HH TOMMY ELVIRA
SUPERMAN ST ETC.
Jef Lepine
> Just off the top of my head, the following games had multiballs that were quite
> moderately balanced with other scoring in the game:
> - Medieval Madness. Most of the time I ignore multiball jackpots and just
> use the additional balls as more ammo with which to attack the castles --
> that's where the big points are (plus that helps if you want any chance at
> BftK).
You can't be serious here? MM multiball is very much lucrutive. Not only
can you get the 1M jackpots, but all the balls flying around just about
ensure one or two castles be nuked. MM is one of the 'big offenders' in my
book.
The others I pretty much agree with though.
-Jef
Joe Schober
>You can't be serious here? MM multiball is very much lucrutive. Not only
>can you get the 1M jackpots, but all the balls flying around just about
>ensure one or two castles be nuked. MM is one of the 'big offenders' in
>my book.
Yeah, if you have 1M jackpots (i.e. all 5 madnesses), Multiball Madness is
lucrative. 4 Madnesses is on the edge. Anything less than that and I find it
much more worthwhile to focus on castles instead of jackpots.
--Joe
Boyd & Michelle Bottorff
> <blockquote TYPE=CITE>200-odd people (at most) who read this
> group?</blockquote> I think you might have under estimated how many people
> read but do not post.
Uh, maybe, but if they don't post, you can't expect WMS to read what
their opinions are here, can you?
Stephen Jonke
drm...@pressroom.com (Dr. Moze) wrote:
> And I'll take any of the SEGA pins over the first 2 P2k
> releases from Williams, which (IMO) have sacvrificed interesting
> playfields and *flow* for neat-o video graphics.
Having recently played Sega Harley Davidson, I have to say that RFM is
much more fun than it. Have you played it yet? RFM has it's flaws, but
the game is fun. Harley Davidson, while not completely horrendous, is
only mildly entertaining at best. The game is pretty much a snooze.
Then there's South Park which is truly *awful*. All IMHO of course. :)
Now that Kaminkow is gone things may look up for Sega/Stern though.
We'll see. I am looking forward to the first truly post-Kaminkow game.
Perhaps foolishly?
Steve
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Boag1
I, for one, thoroughly enjoy HD. It's not the end-all, be-all of Sega pins,
but it's a lot better than a lot of the tripe they've been putting out over the
last couple years. Of course it's better than SP...not much isn't.
But more than that, HD IMPRESSES me. I think the playfield puts the P2K games
to shame so far, and I think the rules are pretty good, too. Heck, I'm
impressed with the entire software package. The light show, the rules, the
music, the multiball, etc. I find myself looking forward to playing it more
often.
Not so RFM. I played it again today. Admittedly, the game was in sorry shape.
Dirty as a King's Cross transvestite, and not in the best working condition.
To say the same wasn't fun was to be gentle. And yes, there are SOME games
that I'll play KNOWING that they're in poor shape because I KNOW I'll enjoy
them anyway (CV comes to mind).
I have YET to be impressed with RFM, but make no mistake: it's light years
ahead of AFM in the enjoyability department. I do find SW:E1 to be more
acceptable, but if I've only got $.50, and RFM, SW:E1, and HD are the pins I
get to choose from, you'd better BELIEVE you're going to hear that hog
RRRRRRUUUUUUMMMMMBBBBBBLLLLLLEEEEEE!!!!!!
Aron
Street maintainence instructions for pinball: 1. Unlock and open coin door
2. Remove coin box and empty contents 3. Replace coin box and shut door 4.
Lock coin door. Congratulations! You're a pinball tech in Detroit! Not that
I'm bitter.
Clive Jones
<bo...@aol.com> writes
>I thought HD WAS the first post-Kaminkow Sega game.
>
>I, for one, thoroughly enjoy HD. It's not the end-all, be-all of Sega pins,
>but it's a lot better than a lot of the tripe they've been putting out over the
>last couple years. Of course it's better than SP...not much isn't.
>
I've not yet seen HD. :(
I thought 'Apollo 13' was a pretty solid game even if the 13-ball multi-
ball was a bit of a gimmick (and I doubt it was intended to be much
more). It's just chaos with 13 balls bobbling around the flippers and
trying to shoot for Jackpots.
Anyway, apart from JK's ruling over previous game designs, I think
Sega's problem was too short a game development cycle. Having said that,
they've only put-out two games this year so maybe the development cycle
*is* being extended(?) Here are a few points I hope they will deal with
now they're under the Stern banner:
- A return to traditional pinball artwork. Leave the 'photorealistic'
art alone.
- More vibrant colours. I found Sega playfields to be too dark.
- Drop the over-use of speech phrases. If Stern are short on storage
space for speech phrases they should introduce 'rest' periods
instead of playing the same phrase over and over again. That is,
*no* phrase. The only exception I can see to this is announcing
another chance with the ball-saver running.
- If the budget allows, re-introduce the 192*64 DMD.
- Chrome/silver habit rails. Personally, I dislike coloured rails.
Just my opinion - take it for what it's worth.
Clive
MK DUD
> art alone.
>
>- More vibrant colours. I found Sega playfields to be too dark.
>
>- Drop the over-use of speech phrases. If Stern are short on storage
> space for speech phrases they should introduce 'rest' periods
> instead of playing the same phrase over and over again. That is,
> *no* phrase. The only exception I can see to this is announcing
> another chance with the ball-saver running.
>
>- If the budget allows, re-introduce the 192*64 DMD.
>
>- Chrome/silver habit rails. Personally, I dislike coloured rails.
>
>
>Just my opinion - take it for what it's worth.
>
>
>Clive
Clive brings up some really good points.
I'd love to see the new Stern machines use a feature found in many of the
early 80's Sterns - the idea of hitting drop targets in a specific order for
greater reward.
Drop targets are great - the beginner loves to just knock them down, but a
master should be rewarded for being able to pick off specific ones in sequence.
This can give the game a universal appeal - a beginner won't be frustrated, and
wizards will be rewarded.
Michael Kelley
Dan Wilga
> space for speech phrases they should introduce 'rest' periods
> instead of playing the same phrase over and over again. That is,
> *no* phrase. The only exception I can see to this is announcing
> another chance with the ball-saver running.
That's always been one of my biggest gripes with Data East/Sega games.
Having to hear the same unintelligible phrase over and over gets to be
really annoying. For the longest time, I had no idea what the heck
"bangarang" was in Hook (until I saw the awful movie), and having to
listen to it said 40 or 50 times a game can really get on one's nerves.
Look at Funhouse. Sure, Rudy screams every time you hit him in the mouth,
but it's not always the same sound. Not only that, they keep the game
fresh by selecting a random nickname to call the player by every time
around. Let's see, there's Bucko, Buster, Buddy... eh, I'm sure somebody
must have figured out all dozen or so by now :-)
Dan Wilga dwilga...@mtholyoke.edu
** Remove the REMOVE in my address address to reply reply **
mayd...@idt.net
> That's always been one of my biggest gripes with Data East/Sega games.
> Having to hear the same unintelligible phrase over and over gets to be
> really annoying. For the longest time, I had no idea what the heck
> "bangarang" was in Hook (until I saw the awful movie), and having to
> listen to it said 40 or 50 times a game can really get on one's
nerves.
Thats all just Joe K's way of doing things.. All pins had to have the
same music & sounds, and of course "copying is the best form of
flattery" yes thats a Joe K quote.. I cant see how Williams would be
flattered by DE copying the system 11 boardset :>
Ever wonder why LW3 looks exactly like T2? (I think DE got sued by
williams for making LW3).. or why Jurassic Park looks like it was
designed by Pat Lawlor? Maybe because those designs worked well for
Williams the first time around! Hey, Joe K did some good things for all
his years at DE/Sega, but Im anxious to see what will happen without
him there.
If Stern changes ever changes names again it should be to Chicago Coin..
Jeff
Ranlett_Jim
: In article <19991013193234...@ng-cm1.aol.com> bo...@aol.com writes:
: >I thought HD WAS the first post-Kaminkow Sega game.
: I don't think so. In IGT's press release announcing that Joe Kaminkow was
: coming to work for them, it enumerates some of the games he designed [sic],
: and HARLEY-DAVIDSON is on that list.
But was it the Sega HD pin or the Sega HD vid that JoeK worked on?
Regards,
Jim Ranlett
David Marston
>
While Sega Pinball may have done some manufacturing for Sega's coin-op
videos, I haven't heard of them doing any design work on videos. I don't
think that JoeK (pronounced "joke"?) or his team would have the bandwidth
to do any such design work, even if the video design teams were inclined
to ask. But I can't say definitively which HD the press release meant.
.................David Marston mar...@coos.dartmouth.EDU
Gregg Woodcock
: Thats all just Joe K's way of doing things.. All pins had to have the
: same music & sounds, and of course "copying is the best form of
: flattery" yes thats a Joe K quote.. I cant see how Williams would be
: flattered by DE copying the system 11 boardset :>
DE licensed the HW platform from Wililams, even some example source
code (so I heard).
: Ever wonder why LW3 looks exactly like T2? (I think DE got sued by
: williams for making LW3).. or why Jurassic Park looks like it was
: designed by Pat Lawlor? Maybe because those designs worked well for
: Williams the first time around! Hey, Joe K did some good things for all
: his years at DE/Sega, but Im anxious to see what will happen without
: him there.
Never heard about the lawsuit but clearly the layouts are borrowed to
great extents.
Williams Electronics
Gregg Woodcock <wood...@bnr.ca> wrote:
>DE licensed the HW platform from Wililams, even some example source
>code (so I heard).
This is incorrect.
Louis
Lonnie Ropp
Several things need to be clarified:
1) The idea to design/manufacture a Sega HD pinball game originated from
JEK.
2) JEK negotiated and secured the rights from HD to manufacture said
game.
3) JEK helped conceive both backglass and cabinet artwork packages.
4) JEK departed for IGT
The bulk of the game design including playfield layout,
playfield/decal/plastic art, rules, software, music, and f/x were
designed by Sega staff members. In addition to this JEK negotiated and
secured the rights for SEU (Sega Japan) to design and manufacture a HD
coin-op video game.
Although his contribution was limited on HD it is very possible that,
without his involvement, the HD pinball project would never have
happened. And for those who are wondering, the High Score list on HD
has "JEK" as the default 10th highest score.
Anyway, if you have any additional questions/comments I'd be glad to
answer them this weekend at Pinball Expo, thanks.
Lonnie
Senor Hurt
I was at Sega this evening...call me. I left a message for Balcer to call me.
Rob