Original Mac fonts
Kim Scarborough
Some friends of mine and I were trying to remember the fonts that came
with the original Macintosh system. Can anyone send me their guess at a
list? I remember Chicago and San Francisco, naturally, but the rest escape
me.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The policeman is not there to create disorder. The policeman is there to
preserve disorder."
-Richard J. Daley
Jude Giampaolo
In article <Pine.BSI.3.95.97020...@shoga.wwa.com>, Kim
Scarborough <slu...@wwa.com> wrote:
> Some friends of mine and I were trying to remember the fonts that came
> with the original Macintosh system. Can anyone send me their guess at a
> list? I remember Chicago and San Francisco, naturally, but the rest escape
> me.
Cairo?
--
Jude Giampaolo -- Penn State University -- Electrical Engineering
jcg...@psu.edu - ju...@smellycat.com - http://prozac.cwru.edu/jude/
John Doherty
| Some friends of mine and I were trying to remember the fonts that came
| with the original Macintosh system. Can anyone send me their guess at a
| list? I remember Chicago and San Francisco, naturally, but the rest escape
| me.
Athens, Cairo, Geneva, London, Los Angeles, Mobile, Monaco, New York,
San Francisco, Taliesin, Toronto, and Venice, and maybe others (Seattle
comes to mind).
pass...@macconnect.com
>Some friends of mine and I were trying to remember the fonts that came
>with the original Macintosh system. Can anyone send me their guess at a
>list? I remember Chicago and San Francisco, naturally, but the rest escape
>me.
Geneva & Helvetica
Times & New York
Courier & Monaco
Zapf Chancery
maybe Symbol
CrazyOne - Greg Pacek
> Some friends of mine and I were trying to remember the fonts that came
> with the original Macintosh system. Can anyone send me their guess at a
> list? I remember Chicago and San Francisco, naturally, but the rest escape
> me.
Monaco, Geneva and New York all date to the original, I think. Times,
Helvitica, Courier and Symbol would be candidates, though I think TImes
and Helvetica (and Palatino) date more to around the time of the
LaserWriter intro. There may be others which are no longer included.
Those are the only ones which I'm sure are close to the originals in my
Fonts menu. Maybe Zapf Chancery, but I think that was a bit later as
well.
------------------------------------------------------------------
craz...@city-net.com | "I say what it occurs to me to say
craz...@worldnet.att.net | when I think I hear people say
Greg Pacek | things. More I cannot say."
Pittsburgh, PA, USA | --the ruler of the Universe
Adrian Mark Fowler
CrazyOne - Greg Pacek (craz...@city-net.com) wrote:
: In article <Pine.BSI.3.95.97020...@shoga.wwa.com>, Kim
: Scarborough <slu...@wwa.com> wrote:
: > Some friends of mine and I were trying to remember the fonts that came
: > with the original Macintosh system. Can anyone send me their guess at a
: > list? I remember Chicago and San Francisco, naturally, but the rest escape
: > me.
: Monaco, Geneva and New York all date to the original, I think. Times,
: Helvitica, Courier and Symbol would be candidates, though I think TImes
: and Helvetica (and Palatino) date more to around the time of the
: LaserWriter intro. There may be others which are no longer included.
: Those are the only ones which I'm sure are close to the originals in my
: Fonts menu. Maybe Zapf Chancery, but I think that was a bit later as
: well.
Add to this some old Type 3 fonts (still found sometimes in the Apple
Extras folder.
London,Athens,Ciro (I know that's not spelt right, but hey.. I never
did geography ;) Venice (one of my favorites, always thought it was a
shame they never produced a type 1 version (or TT) and a couple of
others.. can't remember the names.
adrian
--
Adrian M. Fowler | Time flies like an arrow |
adr...@dcs.qmw.ac.uk | Fruit flies like a banana |
http://www.dcs.qmw.ac.uk/~adrian | |
Jim Shamlin
John Doherty wrote:
>
> In article <Pine.BSI.3.95.97020...@shoga.wwa.com>, Kim
> Scarborough <slu...@wwa.com> wrote:
>
> | Some friends of mine and I were trying to remember the fonts that came
> | with the original Macintosh system. Can anyone send me their guess at a
> | list? I remember Chicago and San Francisco, naturally, but the rest escape
> | me.
>
> San Francisco, Taliesin, Toronto, and Venice, and maybe others (Seattle
> comes to mind).
I bought a 128K Mac back in '85 (man, I'm feeling OLD now) and it came
with ...
Monaco, Geneva, Chicago, and New York. That was it.
The others you name came along later (including Seattle), all named
after cities. Later, staples like "Times" and "Helvetica" and even
"Palatino" were added - but all the "original" fonts (first and second
generation bitmaps) were named after cities.
Moreover, only Geneva, Monaco, and Chicago were necessary: they were
used by the system for rasterizing the desktop - if you removed one of
those fonts, the machine would spit out your "System Disk."
I'm getting nostalgic now. ::sniff::
- S
Bill Williams
<pass...@macconnect.com> wrote:
> >Some friends of mine and I were trying to remember the fonts that came
> >with the original Macintosh system. Can anyone send me their guess at a
> >list? I remember Chicago and San Francisco, naturally, but the rest escape
> >me.
>
> Geneva & Helvetica
> Times & New York
> Courier & Monaco
> Zapf Chancery
> maybe Symbol
Helvetica is the PostScript "version" of Geneva; ditto Times/New York;
and Zapf Chancery and Symbol are both PS.
Here's my thoughts:
Geneva, Monaco, New York, London, Athens, Cairo, San Francisco.
--
Selah!
BWms
bw...@altamaha.net
bill_w...@atlmug.org
-= Computers run on smoke. If it leaks out it won't work. =-
Mike Pinkerton
In article <1997020616...@pm1-16.altamaha.net>, bw...@altamaha.net
(Bill Williams) wrote:
>Here's my thoughts:
>
>Geneva, Monaco, New York, London, Athens, Cairo, San Francisco.
If there are any more, I can't remember them. This list looks good to me...
BTW, anyone remember a font called "Seattle" that shipped with Microsoft
Multiplan?
--
Mike Pinkerton
mpin...@cc.gatech.edu http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~mpinkert
Cyberdog: On the Internet, no one knows you're an OpenDoc part
Kim Scarborough
On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Jim Shamlin wrote:
>
> Monaco, Geneva, Chicago, and New York. That was it.
>
> The others you name came along later (including Seattle), all named
> after cities. Later, staples like "Times" and "Helvetica" and even
> "Palatino" were added - but all the "original" fonts (first and second
> generation bitmaps) were named after cities.
>
> Moreover, only Geneva, Monaco, and Chicago were necessary: they were
> used by the system for rasterizing the desktop - if you removed one of
> those fonts, the machine would spit out your "System Disk."
>
> I'm getting nostalgic now. ::sniff::
Me too. Actually, though, on the early Mac systems, you *could* remove
Chicago, believe it or not. I remember going into the system with ResEdit
and deleting it off one of my disks. (Speaking of nostalgia, remember when
you could fit an operating system AND MacWrite on one 360K floppy?) It
just went and substituted Geneva. Also, you could take any font and, with
ResEdit, rename it "Chicago" and trick the computer into using that for
the system font. I had a system disk using Baghdad (aka Ornamental Arabic)
for the system font.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You can lead a whore to culture, but you can't make her think."
-Dorothy Parker
Timothy Fricker
Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.mac.system: 6-Feb-97 Re: Original Mac
fonts by Mike Pink...@cc.gatech
> Multiplan?
Actually, I think I may still have a Multiplan disk around here
somewhere... Man, now there was a program to make you appreciate Excel
1.xx!
TF
adde...@interaccess.com
On 2/6/97 3:11PM, in message <1997020616...@pm1-16.altamaha.net>, Bill
Williams <bw...@altamaha.net> wrote:
> <pass...@macconnect.com> wrote:
<snip>
> > Geneva & Helvetica
> > Times & New York
> > Courier & Monaco
> > Zapf Chancery
> > maybe Symbol
>
> Helvetica is the PostScript "version" of Geneva; ditto Times/New York;
> and Zapf Chancery and Symbol are both PS.
<snip>
Sounds like there's nothing original about original Mac fonts.
<snicker>
Dan Caugherty
Um, actually, the Mac fonts predate PostScript.
--
+------------...@nortel.ca-------------------------+
| Dan Caugherty | "Standing in my yard/where they |
| Member of Sci. Staff | tore down the garage/to make room |
| Nortel RTP, NC | for the torn-down garage...." |
+------------------------------------------------------------+
George Jefferson
:> Helvetica is the PostScript "version" of Geneva; ditto Times/New York;
:> and Zapf Chancery and Symbol are both PS.
When did the original apple laserwriter come out? The basic laserwriter
set ( including zapf dingbats which I havn't seen mentioned. ) was standard
when I first started using macs in about 1987. I couldn't say if you maybe had
to buy a laser printer in the early days to get those though.
The Geneva/Helvetica "font substitution" bs tells me they were definately
an afterthought though.
Mary LaRue Long
Kim --
Out of pure curiosity triggered by your inquiry I started digging in my boxes of old
software and came up with the original System and MacWrite/Paint disks --versions
1.0 with a creation date of 1/24/84 -- that came with my 128K Mac ordered
shortly after the 1984 Superbowl. The original fonts were Venice, Seattle, Cairo, Los
Angeles, New York, San Francisco, Toronto, Geneva, Monaco and Chicago --they were
only bitmaps of course, since postscript or truetype didn't exist. The Get Info box
doesn't show a version number for the System, but the Finder is 1.0 as are MacWrite
and MacPaint.
We have a rule at our house: once on object enters, it rarely escapes so my trip into
Mac nostalgia also yielded up the original Guided Tour tapes and disk, decals, manuals,
etc., etc. The manual for MacPaint was only 24 pages long and most of them were
pictures. The System took up 140K and the Finder a whopping 40K. The System,
fonts, etc., along with MacWrite and MacPaint all fit on a 400K disk. I still also have
that original Mac; it's still in use for simple cataloging although it now is a Plus. What
amazes me is that my 540c read those old disks with no trouble (although my 9500
didn't like them at all) and my almost 13 year old Mac keeps humming along -- serving a
useful, albeit, by today's standards not very sophisticated, purpose.
Thanks for your question. It took me down memory lane to simpler times.
Mary Long
Tuscany Publications
E-Mail: tusca...@earthlink.net -- To Reply Delete "no.junk.mail"
Stephan Heilmayr
In article <N.020697....@d50.cloud2.interaccess.com>,
adde...@interaccess.com wrote:
> > Helvetica is the PostScript "version" of Geneva; ditto Times/New York;
> > and Zapf Chancery and Symbol are both PS.
>
> Sounds like there's nothing original about original Mac fonts.
> <snicker>
Now, now...
Actually, Helvetica and Geneva are very different, as are Times and New
York. For many people, they've become associated through the horror of
"font substitution" (an option with the older Mac postscript drivers), but
they're really not the same. Geneva and New York, while based loosely on
Helvetica and Times, were designed specifically for screen display.
Originally, they were available only as bitmaps, though now there are also
truetype versions. I still think that Geneva and New York (in their
original bitmap versions) are perhaps the most attractive and legible
fonts available for viewing at the usual screen resolutions.
-- Klaus (heil...@math.berkeley.edu)
Stephen Zisk
Here is some basic information on fonts from the early days of Macs. I
provide this post as history only, I am neither an authority nor a legal
expert on font matters, but I do know some history.
The original Laserwriter shipped in 1985. It included 13 Type 1 fonts,
which were 4 faces each of Times, Helvetica, and Courier, plus Symbol.
This was long before ATM or TrueType, so only bitmaps were offered for
on-screen use.
Since Linotype had (and has) copyright in the names "Times Roman" and
"Helvetica", Apple developed bitmaps which were more-or-less compatible,
called "New York" (misnamed after New York Times) and "Geneva" (since
Helvetica is the Latin name for Switzerland). These fonts led to the Mac
community practice of naming fonts after cities.
Several other "city" fonts were available before the Laserwriter
shipped, and were used on the Imagewriter as well. The ones I am *sure*
were original to the first Macs (because they were in the System itself)
were Monaco, Chicago, New York, Geneva, and Symbol. Some others may have
been available initially, but the proliferation of fonts happened after
the Imagewriter became popular.
The original Imagewriter printed at a resolution of 144 dpi, exactly
twice the original Mac screen resolution of 72 dpi, so screen fonts of
twice normal size worked perfectly on the Imagewriter, and screen
graphics could be bit-doubled to print correctly.
Once the Laserwriter shipped, Apple provided Adobe-created bitmaps for
the Laserwriter faces, called, not surprisingly, Times, Helvetica,
Courier, and Symbol. The Apple metrics were, unfortunately, slightly
different from the printer font metrics, and the character set for
Symbol was also slightly different.
Somewhat later (1987?), the Laserwriter Plus and Linotype L300
(PostScript version) shipped with 35 fonts, which included the "base 13"
Laserwriter fonts plus 4 faces each of ITC Avant Garde Gothic, ITC
Bookman, Helvetica Narrow, New Century Schoolbook, and Palatino, plus
Zapf Chancery Medium Italic and Zapf Dingbats. Again, bitmap versions
were provided, the names (except for Courier and Symbol) were (and are)
copyrighted by Linotype and International Typeface Corporation, and
"city" knock-offs were created by various people.
Adobe, Linotype, and ITC developed downloadable Type 1 fonts to
supplement the built-in sets, and several foundries which did not want
to pay for Adobe's tools developed Type 3 fonts. These fonts worked on
all the PostScript printers, as long as the printer had enough memory to
take the font and still rasterize the job.
Regards,
Steve Zisk
zi...@adobe.com
This post reflects my ideas and opinions, and should not be construed as
the official position of my employer, Adobe Systems Incorporated.
adde...@interaccess.com
On 2/7/97 6:18PM, adde...@interaccess.com wrote:
On 2/7/97 7:32AM, in message <32FB2E...@nortel.ca>, Dan Caugherty
<dca...@nortel.ca> wrote:
> adde...@interaccess.com wrote:
> > On 2/6/97 3:11PM, in message <1997020616...@pm1-16.altamaha.net>,
> Bill
> > Williams <bw...@altamaha.net> wrote:
> > > <pass...@macconnect.com> wrote:
>
> > > Helvetica is the PostScript "version" of Geneva; ditto Times/New York;
> > > and Zapf Chancery and Symbol are both PS.
> > <snip>
> > Sounds like there's nothing original about original Mac fonts.
> > <snicker>
>
> Um, actually, the Mac fonts predate PostScript.
Um, actually digital typesetting pre-dates Macs by at least 4 years, at least
in the DENSI language, and all those font designs pre-date Apple.
Some pre-date the birth of Apple's founders. I don't remember when Linotype
300s were first available for PS output, but I have a Linotype digital font
catalog from 1985 that lists the 300. My 1982 font catalog doesn't list the
300, so it apparently came out between 1983 nad 1985. And that's not dot
matrix, either.
I believe the Ikarus font program developed out of Donald Knuth's font
algorithm concepts in the 1970s.
So whether or not Mac predates PostScript (not by much, if it does), really
doesn't affect whether or not "original" Mac fonts were "original." They simply
weren't. All the font designs were pre-existent. All were previously digitized
and in use on digital photo-typesetters.
Now for our next history lesson, Mac did not originate computer graphics, 16.8
million color systems, bitmap or vector based drawing programs, all of which
were available in about 1981-82 with PC-based systems using the Targa board,
and software such as Lumina.
Jeff/addesign
John Doherty
In article <32FBAD...@adobe.com>, Stephen Zisk <zi...@adobe.com> wrote:
[accurate stuff re: early mac fonts snipped]
| Somewhat later (1987?), the Laserwriter Plus and Linotype L300
| (PostScript version) shipped
For the record, we had an L100P before we were able to buy an L300 with
a PS RIP ("we" here refers to a company I no longer work for).
The L100 was a real dog. The L300 was a workhorse, though. Between 1988
and 1992, we pumped 500,000 or so pages out of ours, and it hardly ever
even burped. It was a Good Machine (for its time).
J. Edward Sanchez
Stephen Zisk <zi...@adobe.com> wrote:
>Several other "city" fonts were available before the Laserwriter
>shipped, and were used on the Imagewriter as well. The ones I am *sure*
>were original to the first Macs (because they were in the System itself)
>were Monaco, Chicago, New York, Geneva, and Symbol. Some others may have
>been available initially, but the proliferation of fonts happened after
>the Imagewriter became popular.
I used to have a 512K "Fat Mac" (a 1985 model, I think), and an
Imagewriter. In addition to the fonts listed above, my system also
came with London (18pt), Venice (14pt), and San Francisco (18pt)
bitmap fonts, and possibly others that I too no longer remember.
BTW, was Monaco an *ugly* font or what?
Edward
--
J. Edward Sanchez <je...@lightlink.com>
http://www.spiresoft.com/ (SoftArts)
http://www.spiresoft.com/jess/ (Edward's Place)
J Vincent
Kim Scarborough wrote:
>
> Some friends of mine and I were trying to remember the fonts that came
> with the original Macintosh system. Can anyone send me their guess at a
> list? I remember Chicago and San Francisco, naturally, but the rest escape
> me.
OK, of all the posts I've seen, ***nobody*** has gotten this right. Here
are the original fonts that shipped on Macs for the first four or five
months of 1984, with all the point sizes included:
New York: 9, *12, 14, 18, 24
Geneva: *9, 12, 14, 18, 24
Toronto: 9, 12, 14, 18, 24
Monaco: (monospaced): *9, 12
Chicago: *12
Venice: 14
London: 18
Athens: 18
San Francisco: 18
That's the order they originally appeared in in Font menus. The
asterisks indicate the original required system fonts. Note that New
York 12 was a required font; Geneva 12 was substituted for New York 12
later.
Seattle 10 and 20 were shipped with at least Micorsoft Multiplan and
Basic 1.0 -- I know they shipped with Basic because that's where I
discovered them. Only these two programs could support 10-point sizes at
the Mac's inception (and only Basic let one display 20-point on-screen);
MacWrite and MacPaint didn't allow 10 or 20 point sizes.
In April or May 1984, Apple upgraded Finder to 1.1g, MacPaint to 1.4 and
MacWrite to 2.2. I don't know the System upgrade version because Apple
did not openly use System version numbers for several years. With this
upgrade arrived Los Angeles 12 and 24, Cairo 18, Geneva 10 and 20 and
New York 10, 20 and 36. Note that none of these fonts or sizes would
have shipped with original Macs.
MacWrite 2.2 added a 10-point menu option; thus the new point sizes for
New York and Geneva.
Often, to save disk space, Apple would only include the four required
system fonts, rather than the full set, on system disks.
Taleisin was released later -- don't remember when, but it was in late
1984/early 85 with the introduction of either MacProject or MacDraw. A
few months later, the name of the font was changed to Mobile. But by now
several third-party fonts are around, and we've got the LaserWriter,
too.
Oh, the LaserWriter was introduced within a few days of the Mac's first
anniversary; something like January 23, 1985. It only came with Times,
Helvetica, Courier and Symbol. But the accompanying screen fonts sure
were nice to get a hold of as well, especially for those of us who
couldn't afford the $7000 LaserWriters.
More trivia: During the design of the Mac many different names were
tossed around for the fonts. I believe New York was once called
Rosement, Chicago was System and Athens was City. The Mac article in the
January 1984 BYTE shows font samples using all the old names.
You're welcome.
--
J Vincent, Chicago, IL...Reply to: jvincent (at) mcs (dot) net
"No matter what your plan is, the result will always be a surprise."
Stephan Heilmayr
In article <33006430...@nntp.lightlink.com>,
je...@lightlink.com (J. Edward Sanchez) wrote:
> BTW, was Monaco an *ugly* font or what?
What.
Actually, the Monaco screen font is one of my favorite monospaced fonts.
Unfortunately, the truetype version is very different. In fact, the
differences between the metrics of the bitmap and truetype Monacos often
causes the spacing to be screwed up when you print on a non-postscript
printer (and screwed up spacing kind of defeats the purpose of a
monospaced font). I wish there were a truetype (or postscript) version of
the _real_ Monaco. I've been playing around with creating something like
that in Fontographer, but it's still _very_ far from being done, so don't
hold your breath...
-- Klaus (heil...@math.berkeley.edu)
garya29
I used to do freelance writing that required output in special spaced
copy paper. If I used anything but Monaco the editors freaked out--this
was in the days before disk submissions--because they couldn't guarantee
the output would fit the publication without line cuts or filler. I
hated Monaco, though.
Lee David
Stephan Heilmayr wrote (in part):
> ...the Monaco screen font is one of my favorite monospaced fonts.
Ditto. As a sometimes programmer though, I wish there was some
visible difference between I and l, not to mention 0 and O.
L.
J. Edward Sanchez
heil...@math.berkeley.edu (Stephan Heilmayr) wrote:
>In article <33006430...@nntp.lightlink.com>,
>je...@lightlink.com (J. Edward Sanchez) wrote:
>
>> BTW, was Monaco an *ugly* font or what?
>
>What.
>
>Actually, the Monaco screen font is one of my favorite monospaced fonts.
Well, to each his own. To my eyes, Monaco was the font from Hell.
BTW, someone else on this thread mentioned Athens as one of the early
Mac fonts. I remember having it on my Fat Mac, but can't remember what
it looked like, or what sizes it came in. Can anyone help me out?
Shaul Landsberg
which I 'think' which comes with two additions:
1) a Font MPW ... this has fetures to distinquish between :
number 0, letter O
number 1, letter l
as well as other amibiguous combinations
2) A control Panel Monaco Tuner ... that allows substitution
for either Monaco 9 ( a favorite of programmers)
or for Monaco at all sizes
Please note that I could not find them on CW10 or CW11, so they must've
come from an OLDER version??
I'd send them to you, but I am NOT sure they are shareware
It is possible that the MPW font comes with ETO as a progemmer's Font
I have attached a ReadME
Shaul
Gary Munch
>
>BTW, someone else on this thread mentioned Athens as one of the early
>Mac fonts. I remember having it on my Fat Mac, but can't remember what
>it looked like, or what sizes it came in. Can anyone help me out?
>Edward
>J. Edward Sanchez <je...@lightlink.com>
>http://www.spiresoft.com/ (SoftArts)
>http://www.spiresoft.com/jess/ (Edward's Place)
As far as I can recall, Athens was based on City--even-stroke, slab serif,
no nicks, very square except on arcades and curved letters where there are
tight radial curves; counters all right-angles . Well of curse that's City,
Athens dropped a pixel to simulate a curve. Don't remember its sizes.
--
Gary Munch
GMaju...@aol.com
gmu...@pipeline.com
http://members.aol.com/GMajuscule/
John Moreno
Kim Scarborough <slu...@wwa.com> wrote:
] Some friends of mine and I were trying to remember the fonts that came
] with the original Macintosh system. Can anyone send me their guess at
] a list? I remember Chicago and San Francisco, naturally, but the rest
] escape me.
Fonts on System .1
Athens 18
Chicago 12
Courier 9,10,12
Geneva 9,10,12,14,18,20,24
Helvetica 9,10,12,14,18
London 18
Monaco 9,12
New York 9,10,12,14,18,20,24
Times 9,10,12,14,18
Venice 14
You can find the system on Phil & Dave's Excellent CD and possible on
apple's ftp site.
--
John Moreno
Al Sherer
CrazyOne - Greg Pacek,craz...@city-net.com,Internet writes:
> Some friends of mine and I were trying to remember the fonts that came
> with the original Macintosh system.
The ones you're probably trying to remember, because they're no longer
included in current system updates, are:
Venice
Athens
Cairo
London
Los Angeles
Mobile
San Francisco
Some shareware font designers have recreated PostScript and TrueType versions
of these, if you're interested in using them today.
- Al Sherer, TRoU BBS, Chicago area
al_s...@troubbs.org
Paul Wilson
Sorry, this isn't the "original" Mac system. Courier, Times & Helvetica didn't
appear 'til 1985 with the first LaserWriter.
Paul
George Jefferson
:BTW, was Monaco an *ugly* font or what?
Sorry, its the best 9 point / 72 dpi monospace font there is.
MY opinion of course, but it is what I'm looking at right now :-)
George Jefferson
:Ditto. As a sometimes programmer though, I wish there was some
:visible difference between I and l, not to mention 0 and O.
there are at least two monaco replacements that do just that..
They also have bolder punctuation marks and such..try your
favorite shareware archive. One is called pro-font I think.
David S.
In article <p.kerr.unknown-...@news.auckland.ac.nz>,
p.kerr....@host.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Kerr) wrote:
>>
>> BTW, someone else on this thread mentioned Athens as one of the early
>> Mac fonts. I remember having it on my Fat Mac, but can't remember what
>> it looked like, or what sizes it came in. Can anyone help me out?
>>
>Athens, I would describe as bold or semi-bold, slab-serifed, proportional,
>squarer, chunkier letters than Courier, but still looking something
>like a computer's typewriter thru real black carbon paper.
>I have only 18pt here, don't know if there were others.
>
>Not to be mistaken with Boston, which came built into early versions
>of MS Works, and was virtually a proportional Courier.
>
>--
>Peter Kerr bodger
>School of Music chandler
>University of Auckland NZ neo-Luddite
And what ever happened to that great font SaN FraNcISco?
--
David Schlosser
web...@webname.com | dsc...@azstarnet.com
Graphic Artist/Page Designer | The Arizona Daily Star
http://www.azstarnet.com/~dschlos/
William I. Johnston
In article <32FD8C...@mich.com>, l...@mich.com wrote [about Monaco]:
> As a sometimes programmer though, I wish there was some
> visible difference between I and l, not to mention 0 and O.
Here's the scoop about getting a font that looks on screen like Monaco
but has more pronounced punctuation, as well as clearly differentiated
I, l, and 1, as well as differentiated 0 and O.
It's called ProFont, not Pro-font. There are versions in TrueType
as well as PostScript Type 1 available from this source:
ProFont Fonts
ftp://users.aol.com/squeegee/
I have created a variety of the ProFont font that allows Macintosh users
to see web pages the way PC users do. It uses the standard Macintosh
encoding and includes all the valid HTML entities (such as accented
characters, superscript digits, old english characters) in the correct
locations, and excludes any characters that are not valid HTML (such as
trademark). You can use this in your newsreader and/or mail program, and
especially use it as your monospaced font in your Mac web browser. The
font variety is called ProFontWWW because it is meant for the web. You can
use it also to debug your web pages, making sure you don't use any entities
that would be likely to be rendered differently on various platforms.
ProFontWWW
http://world.std.com/%7Ewij/profont/about-profontwww.html
The outline and bitmaps of ProFontWWW match ProFont. They are derived
from the original bitmap of Monaco, so when printed they do not look
like the printed version of Monaco. It's a bit ugly as a printed font
but looks great on screen at 9 points, for example. The URL above
has a .gif file that shows the character set at that size if you want
to see it before downloading.
All the above mentioned fonts are FREE.
--
William I. Johnston
Watertown, MA USA
mailto:w...@world.std.com
http://world.std.com/~wij/index.html
Larry Preuss
In article <1997Feb1...@emc.com>, wil...@zzzzzzzzemc.com (Paul
Wilson) wrote:
And have we forgotten Cairo?
Larry
--
Peter Kerr
M
> >je...@lightlink.com (J. Edward Sanchez) wrote:
> >
> >
> >Actually, the Monaco screen font is one of my favorite monospaced fonts.
>
> Well, to each his own. To my eyes, Monaco was the font from Hell.
The 12-point bitmap I always found ugly & hard to read, but the 9-point
version is my favorite monospaced font of all time. I can't stand Courier.
> BTW, someone else on this thread mentioned Athens as one of the early
> Mac fonts. I remember having it on my Fat Mac, but can't remember what
> it looked like, or what sizes it came in. Can anyone help me out?
Thick strokes with no variation of weight; few diagonals (some of the
corners are somewhat rounded); and big slab serifs.
I believe there were only 18 and 36 point versions created. The 36 point
size would have been for smoother printing on ImageWriter printers.
---< js...@acad1.alaska.edu >----------------------------------------------
Joel Klecker
In article <webboy-ya02408000...@snews2.zippo.com>,
web...@super.zippo.com (David S.) wrote:
>And what ever happened to that great font SaN FraNcISco?
Nothing, it stayed a bitmapped font. Most of the original fonts were
available with every system version until 7.5, AFAIK. 7.1 had them on
either the "Tidbits" or "Fonts" disk in a font suitcase or folder called
"Apple Classic Fonts", IIRC.
Disk 4 of 7.0 at Apple software update sites has some, but not all of the
fonts, try
<URL:ftp://ftp.apple.com:21/Apple.Support.Area/Apple.Software.Updates/US
/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_7.0.x/SSW_7.0-4of8.sea.hqx>.
--
Joel Klecker (j...@esperance.com) <URL:http://www.esperance.com/>
PGP Key available from my webpage, see "X-PGP-Key" header for fingerprint.
Boycott Microsoft! Why? See <URL:http://www.vcnet.com/bms/>.
Bill Williams
David S. <web...@super.zippo.com> wrote:
> And what ever happened to that great font SaN FraNcISco?
The one designed to be used in composing ransom notes, right?(G)
--
Selah!
BWms
bw...@altamaha.net
bill_w...@atlmug.org
-= Computers run on smoke. If it leaks out it won't work. =-
Mark L. Simonson
In article <199702100...@roxboro-171.interpath.net>,
phe...@interpath.com (John Moreno) wrote:
> Kim Scarborough <slu...@wwa.com> wrote:
>
> ] Some friends of mine and I were trying to remember the fonts that came
> ] with the original Macintosh system. Can anyone send me their guess at
> ] a list? I remember Chicago and San Francisco, naturally, but the rest
> ] escape me.
>
> Fonts on System .1
>
> Athens 18
> Chicago 12
> Courier 9,10,12
> Geneva 9,10,12,14,18,20,24
> Helvetica 9,10,12,14,18
> London 18
> Monaco 9,12
> New York 9,10,12,14,18,20,24
> Times 9,10,12,14,18
> Venice 14
The actual list should be:
Chicago 12
Geneva 9, 12, 14, 18, 24
New York 9, 12, 14, 18, 24
Monaco 9, 12
Toronto 9, 12, 14, 18, 24
Venice 14
London 18
San Francisco 24
Athens 18
One of the first system updates dropped Toronto and added:
Geneva 10, 20
New York 10, 20
Los Angeles 12, 24
Taliesen (renamed Cairo) 24
Also, the original version of Geneva had a one-story lowercase "a". I
remember seeing some early documentation (Inside Mac, I think) which had
an illustration of a font menu listing completely different names. They
may have been changed for legal reasons. Here is the list (as best as I
can recall) corresponding to the first list above:
System
Helvetica
Times
Monospace
(no Toronto, Venice, or London?)
Ransom
City
Mark Simonson
Blue Sky Graphics
Jonathan Paterson
>In article <webboy-ya02408000...@snews2.zippo.com>,
>web...@super.zippo.com (David S.) wrote:
>>And what ever happened to that great font SaN FraNcISco?
j...@esperance.com (Joel Klecker) wrote:
>Nothing, it stayed a bitmapped font. . . .
But there is a freeware Type 1 equivalent called St. Francis. It's
probably still around somewhere.
Peter Kerr
> > |> Athens 18
> > |> Chicago 12
> > |> Courier 9,10,12
> > |> Geneva 9,10,12,14,18,20,24
> > |> Helvetica 9,10,12,14,18
> > |> London 18
> > |> Monaco 9,12
> > |> New York 9,10,12,14,18,20,24
> > |> Times 9,10,12,14,18
> > |> Venice 14
> > Sorry, this isn't the "original" Mac system. Courier, Times &
Helvetica didn't
> > appear 'til 1985 with the first LaserWriter.
> And have we forgotten Cairo?
Cairo, Mobile, Miami came later, third party I think.
Brad Ferguson
In article <marksim-1202...@port116.bitstream.net>,
mar...@bitstream.net (Mark L. Simonson) wrote:
> One of the first system updates dropped Toronto and added:
>
> Geneva 10, 20
> New York 10, 20
> Los Angeles 12, 24
> Taliesen (renamed Cairo) 24
As I recall, Cairo came before Taliesen, and they were different fonts. I
don't remember seeing Taliesen around before the introduction of MacDraw.
Oh, and what was the name of that font Microsoft packaged with Multiplan?
Dallas, maybe? Not a System font, but surely an original.
--
Stop by http://www.fred.net/thirteen/
Mark Gates
In article <anti_email_spam-...@uas-du-01-06.jun.alaska.edu>,
anti_em...@real.address.in.sig (M) wrote:
> je...@lightlink.com (J. Edward Sanchez) wrote:
> > heil...@math.berkeley.edu (Stephan Heilmayr) wrote:
> > >je...@lightlink.com (J. Edward Sanchez) wrote:
> > >> BTW, was Monaco an *ugly* font or what?
> > >
> > >What.
> > >
> > >Actually, the Monaco screen font is one of my favorite monospaced fonts.
> >
> > Well, to each his own. To my eyes, Monaco was the font from Hell.
>
> The 12-point bitmap I always found ugly & hard to read, but the 9-point
> version is my favorite monospaced font of all time. I can't stand Courier.
Monaco 9 (at least according to the ProFont documentation) was designed to
be the same size as the ImageWriter draft font, so printouts looked nice
with it. Probably almost all Mac programmers still use Monaco because it
looks better than almost every other mono-spaced font (namely Courier) and
is the default in most text editing environments.
ProFont is actually a TrueType font, so its larger point sizes don't look
so bad, but why would anyone use them?
// Have a Coke and a Smile! home to The Choir and Coca-Cola \\
|| http://www.cen.uiuc.edu/~mr-gates/ (choir.html or coke.html) ||
\\ for your viewing enjoyment by mark gates (mr-g...@uiuc.edu) //
sp...@escape.com
Actually, I believe that Susan Kare had named the original Mac fonts
after train stops on her line when she lived in Pennsylvania---- Ardmore
and Bryn Mawr, etc. The story goes that Jobs liked the idea of naming
the fonts after locations, but mere cities in PA weren't good enough -
he wanted world class cities like Geneva, New York and Venice. That's
where it all came from....
sp...@escape.com
Ye Olde Grislie
Dan Caugherty <dca...@nortel.ca> wrote:
>adde...@interaccess.com wrote:
>>
>> On 2/6/97 3:11PM, in message <1997020616...@pm1-16.altamaha.net>, Bill
>> Williams <bw...@altamaha.net> wrote:
>> > <pass...@macconnect.com> wrote:
>
>> > Helvetica is the PostScript "version" of Geneva; ditto Times/New York;
>> > and Zapf Chancery and Symbol are both PS.
>> <snip>
>>
>> Sounds like there's nothing original about original Mac fonts.
>> <snicker>
>
>Um, actually, the Mac fonts predate PostScript.
But Helvetica and Times New Roman (and possibly the others) predate by
quite a margin the Mac itself, PostScript, and digital typography.
Don't forget: fonts did not begin with their digital forms.
----
yog -- "Setting newbies' feet on the right path since 1997"
Jiaqing Bao
sp...@escape.com wrote:
: Actually, I believe that Susan Kare had named the original Mac fonts
: after train stops on her line when she lived in Pennsylvania---- Ardmore
: and Bryn Mawr, etc. The story goes that Jobs liked the idea of naming
: the fonts after locations, but mere cities in PA weren't good enough -
: he wanted world class cities like Geneva, New York and Venice. That's
: where it all came from....
Yes, it is so. It was written in Steven Levy's _Insanely Great_. Steve
Jobs wants to use major city names, and he's the boss. Susan Kare was a
furniture designer, I believe, before working for Apple. She did almost
all the cosmetic works for the original Mac.
There is a font Bryn Mawr designed by a guy I forgot the name. It is a
display font. Perhaps nothing to do with Ms Kare.
--
Jiaqing Bao