Lots More Proof That JFK Didn't Want The Agents On The Bumper

[David Von Pein]

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/11/secret-service.html#Commission-Document-821

[Anthony Marsh]

On 6/27/2014 11:16 PM, David Von Pein wrote:
> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/11/secret-service.html#Commission-Document-821
>

That should be good enough for any sane person, but it's not good enough
for the kooks. They demand to hear it directly from JFK himself.

[Lanny]

On Friday, June 27, 2014 11:16:12 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/11/secret-service.html#Commission-Document-821

Last I heard, Palamara was still busy absolving himself of blame for
misidentifying Don Lawton as Henry Rybka -- and still implying Emory
Roberts was calling a last minute audible to "strip" the President of a
layer of security to (obviously) facilitate the attack Roberts surely knew
was coming.

In other words, "Kooktoons."

[magoos...@msn.com]

On Friday, June 27, 2014 10:16:12 PM UTC-5, David Von Pein wrote:
> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/11/secret-service.html#Commission-Document-821

So you've got Behn and Boring and then others repeating what Boring
told them JFK may, or may not, have said.

Squinty Magoo

[mainframetech]

On Friday, June 27, 2014 11:16:12 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/11/secret-service.html#Commission-Document-821

Another effort to up the hit count on DVP's website.

We've seen all the proof we need that JFK was easy to get along with as
far as the SS was concerned, and that he never told them to get off the
platforms. Which includes direct quotes from various SS agents. See the
website of Vince Palamara, who is most familiar with the SS agents and
their experiences.

Chris

[David Von Pein]

ANTHONY MARSH SAID:

That should be good enough for any sane person, but it's not good enough
for the kooks. They demand to hear it directly from JFK himself.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Indeed.

And I've been searching my vast audio and video files for a Dictabelt
recording (or some other recording) of JFK making an off-the-cuff remark
to somebody about not wanting the agents on the car.

I can't wait till I find that long-lost recording of JFK *himself* saying
to something to someone in the Oval Office about not liking the agents
near his limo.

When I do find that elusive audio recording, though, the CTers will
probably just say that *I* created the tape myself. (I do a fairly decent
impersonation of JFK, I must say.) :-)

[stevemg...@yahoo.com]

On Friday, June 27, 2014 10:16:12 PM UTC-5, David Von Pein wrote:
> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/11/secret-service.html#Commission-Document-821

Good stuff.

That will end this debate (hah).

For about, I'd say, two weeks. The it'll be resurrected.

Oswald's brother Robert put it best:

"It's good that people raise questions and say, 'Wait a minute, let's take
a second look at this.' But when you take the second look and the third
and the 40th and the 50th, hey, enough's enough. It's there; put it to
rest."

Put it to rest.

Oswald shot JFK. End of story.

Did he have help? Okay, maybe, perhaps. But all of these attempts to run
away from Oswald's involvement don't help us answer that question.

I think the answer is "No." But I haven't closed all the doors on that
one.

But this question? It's been answered. There's nothing there.

[David Von Pein]

So, Squinty, actual SIGNED STATEMENTS by two different Secret Service
agents -- Behn and Boring -- wherein they both say that JFK told each of
them PERSONALLY about not wanting the agents close to the car -- still
isn't good enough for you?

Do you think both of these detailed statements are filled with lies? ....

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8gJWQRd7Neg/U62pHP9uhVI/AAAAAAAA1k0/KYcbxc5Qq4c/s1600-h/CD821-Behn.png

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-azgrj-p9qOc/U62pHDxmgvI/AAAAAAAA1k8/Q5jldE38XyM/s1600-h/CD821-Boring.png

Also....

In addition to the "numerous" occasions where Kennedy expressed his
displeasure about the agents being close to the car to Gerald Behn, the
conspiracists should find Floyd Boring's alleged "lies" that he told in
CD821 to be rather interesting in an *extended* way too, because Agent
Boring talks not only about the Nov. 18 incident in Tampa, but Boring also
says that "a similar request was made by President Kennedy to me on July
2, 1963...in Rome, Italy".

So, Boring recalled a specific additional incident when JFK told Boring
personally that he didn't want the agents on the car.

But, I guess CTers like Vincent Palamara must think that Boring thought it
would look good on paper to tell MORE LIES, with specific dates and
locations added in.

[mainframetech]

Apparently you've ignored an awful lot of statements from the SS agents
themselves.

Chris

[mainframetech]

Check out Boring's ARRB testimony. It starts on a very odd note.

Chris

[David Von Pein]

Good job, Mainframe. Just ignore the multiple statements in CD821
completely (or pretend that all of those SS agents were lying and were in
a unified CYA mode). After all, it's only original **1964** evidence that
proves Palamara is dead wrong (and Behn and Boring had forgotten about
these documents when they talked to Palamara decades later)....

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8gJWQRd7Neg/U62pHP9uhVI/AAAAAAAA1k0/KYcbxc5Qq4c/s1600-h/CD821-Behn.png

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-azgrj-p9qOc/U62pHDxmgvI/AAAAAAAA1k8/Q5jldE38XyM/s1600-h/CD821-Boring.png

[Bud]

On Saturday, June 28, 2014 5:28:08 PM UTC-4, mainframetech wrote:
> On Friday, June 27, 2014 11:16:12 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
>
> > http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/11/secret-service.html#Commission-Document-821
>
>
>
>
>
> Another effort to up the hit count on DVP's website.
>
>
>
> We've seen all the proof we need that JFK was easy to get along with as
>
> far as the SS was concerned, and that he never told them to get off the
>
> platforms. Which includes direct quotes from various SS agents.

That is what DVP provided.

> See the
>
> website of Vince Palamara, who is most familiar with the SS agents and
>
> their experiences.

More so than the agents themselves?

>
>
> Chris

[OHLeeRedux]

mainframetech

JFK ordered the agents to stay off the limo. There is no question about
that. Stop making things up as you go along.

[tims...@gmail.com]

You mean *kooks* like Benny over @ The Nuthouse?

He is a big fan of Mark Lane, a PROVEN liar in matters JFK.

Informative Regards,

Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*

*...NOT ONE of the three experts was able to strike the head or the
neck of the target EVEN ONCE.* (Emphasis added).
Mark Lane, Rush to Judgment, page 129, footnoted as: XVII 261-262.

And yet here IS WC XVII 261-262, showing hits to the head...
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0144a.htm

X marks the spot where Mark Lane lied!

[Anthony Marsh]

On 6/28/2014 10:12 PM, tims...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, 29 June 2014 01:33:00 UTC+10, Anthony Marsh wrote:
>> On 6/27/2014 11:16 PM, David Von Pein wrote:
>>
>>> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/11/secret-service.html#Commission-Document-821
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> That should be good enough for any sane person, but it's not good enough
>>
>> for the kooks. They demand to hear it directly from JFK himself.
>
> You mean *kooks* like Benny over @ The Nuthouse?
>
> He is a big fan of Mark Lane, a PROVEN liar in matters JFK.
>

They only proven liars are the WC defenders.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 6/28/2014 8:33 PM, David Von Pein wrote:
> ANTHONY MARSH SAID:
>
> That should be good enough for any sane person, but it's not good enough
> for the kooks. They demand to hear it directly from JFK himself.
>
>
> DAVID VON PEIN SAID:
>
> Indeed.
>
> And I've been searching my vast audio and video files for a Dictabelt
> recording (or some other recording) of JFK making an off-the-cuff remark
> to somebody about not wanting the agents on the car.
>

Yeah, as if they would let you hear it. You don't even know about the 4
or 5 WH tapes they destroyed. When I filed a request for just the
transcripts of the destroyed tapes Goodrich told me they would NEVER be
released.

[mainframetech]

See my discrediting of these memos in the previous post. They were
indeed CYA memos, but above you'll se further proof.

Chris

[mainframetech]

There are indeed questions about that, since many of the agents never
heard of such a policy, and their view of JFK was of a man that would
never use the phrase "ivy league charlatans'.

An interesting comment was made by Floyd Boring in his ARRB testimony.
When explaining why he mentioned to Clint Hill that JFK wanted the agents
to stay off the platforms, he gave his reasons this way:

"...stated that he was not relaying a policy change, but rather simply
telling an anecdote about the President's kindness and consideration in
Tampa in not wanting agents to have to ride on the rear of the Lincoln
limousine when it was not necessary to do so because of a lack of crowds
along the street."

This reason from Boring goes against the previous story that he relayed
JFK's comment and called the agents "Ivy league charlatans". The comment
attributed to Boring is very different in attitude than the mood he gave
of JFK caring for the agents.

Thank you for the opportunity to present this discreditation of the
'stay off the platforms' order.

Chris

[mainframetech]

On Saturday, June 28, 2014 8:37:10 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
> So, Squinty, actual SIGNED STATEMENTS by two different Secret Service
>
> agents -- Behn and Boring -- wherein they both say that JFK told each of
>
> them PERSONALLY about not wanting the agents close to the car -- still
>
> isn't good enough for you?
>
>
>
> Do you think both of these detailed statements are filled with lies? ....
>
>
>
> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8gJWQRd7Neg/U62pHP9uhVI/AAAAAAAA1k0/KYcbxc5Qq4c/s1600-h/CD821-Behn.png
>
>
>
> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-azgrj-p9qOc/U62pHDxmgvI/AAAAAAAA1k8/Q5jldE38XyM/s1600-h/CD821-Boring.png
>
>

Well now, yes. Since the Behn memo was produced dated 4/16/64 I would
suggest that it was a bit late for the agents on the day of the murder to
heed such a ruling. Was the memo a cover up for the argument as to
whether the order was given or not? And later we'll see that the Boring
memo was only a few days before this one, as well.

IF an order was given by JFK, why was it not typed up into a memo for
all the agents back then? Because it wasn't from JFK, and so was ignored
until they had to cover their tails. THEN it got written up.

The "numerous occasions" mentioned has been taken out of context. Go
back and check the paragraph where the phrase in mentioned and you'll see
that it refers to the agents that run alongside, not the agents on the
platforms. When moving in crowd-lined streets the agents that would hear
JFK would be running alongside, not on the platforms, and the phrase is
used in the memo about agents "on his side of the car". Not those behind
him.

Next, we have the Boring memo. You will find an interesting and
suspicious reaction from Boring just before he was going to be sworn and
interviewed. In his memo dated 4/8/64 (just before Behn's memo) he starts
out mentioning that the 2 agents that were running alongside "jumped onto
the rear steps". Except they didn't do that, so his memory is faulty or
he's lying.

Here's what those agents did:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6OWcujJSCU

That was the famous 'stand down' of SS agents going into Dallas from
the airport. Note that they don't "jump onto the rear steps".

Now we come to the comment put out by Boring. It was stated that Boring
said that JFK had said that he wanted "those Ivy league charlatans" off
the platforms. But that doesn't sound anything like what he said in his

ARRB testimony. In explaining his comment about the platforms, it said:

"...stated that he was not relaying a policy change, but rather simply
telling an anecdote about the President's kindness and consideration in
Tampa in not wanting agents to have to ride on the rear of the Lincoln
limousine when it was not necessary to do so because of a lack of crowds
along the street."

Seems to be a bit of a disconnect there...:)

We need to learn how people deal with a problem like the murder of JFK.
The people responsible for his safety will naturally feel guilty and try
to cover up any mistakes.

>
> Also....
>
>
>
> In addition to the "numerous" occasions where Kennedy expressed his
>
> displeasure about the agents being close to the car to Gerald Behn, the
>
> conspiracists should find Floyd Boring's alleged "lies" that he told in
>
> CD821 to be rather interesting in an *extended* way too, because Agent
>
> Boring talks not only about the Nov. 18 incident in Tampa, but Boring also
>
> says that "a similar request was made by President Kennedy to me on July
>
> 2, 1963...in Rome, Italy".
>

The so-called "numerous occasions" has been dealt with above.

>
>
> So, Boring recalled a specific additional incident when JFK told Boring
>
> personally that he didn't want the agents on the car.
>

Boring's memory was a bit confused as shown above.

>
>
> But, I guess CTers like Vincent Palamara must think that Boring thought it
>
> would look good on paper to tell MORE LIES, with specific dates and
>
> locations added in.

As we can easily see, the memos are dated within a week of each other,
and are produced months after the murder, but before the WC produced their
final report and recommendations. It's clear that the memos were CYA
memos. If it were a rule of the president's there would have been a memo
stating the policy about standing on the platforms. Again, many agents
heard NOTHING of this policy.

Chris

[mainframetech]

You've made a mistake in your thinking. When others come up with
reasons why the standard commentary isn't true, then you have the
responsibility to investigate those comments and prove them true or false,
and go with what you found.

A number of people were in the stairway right after the shots rang out
in the Plaza, and Baker and Truly accosted Oswald on the 2nd floor soon
after too. They found Oswald (not out of breath) having a coke. The
people in the stairway didn't see anyone come down at the times they were
there.

NO ONE has done the work of showing how Oswald did the job given the
testimony and statements of the people involved, and yet you wonder why
the subject keeps coming up,. Since NOTHING has been done to eliminate
the proofs supplied about Oswald's position in the TSBD, those comments
will continue to come up, and I guess you will have to hear them until you
solve the problem of the facts.

Chris

[mainframetech]

Ridiculous fantasy. You won't find JFK saying such a thing, since it
would be entirely out of character for him. Many of the agents agreed
that JFK was very easy to get along with and protect, and he took all
their suggestions without complaint. Many also said they never heard the
comment from him that he didn't want them on the platforms. The only
mention of staying off the platforms that I've found is when Clint Hill
heard Floyd Boring say it, and the comment called the agents on the
platforms 'Ivy league charlatans', which is not JFK talking. Nope, won't
do.

Chris

[David Von Pein]

MAINFRAME SAID:

[Boring] starts out mentioning that the 2 agents that were running

alongside "jumped onto the rear steps". Except they didn't do that, so
his memory is faulty or he's lying.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Boy are you confused. Boring isn't talking about Dallas Nov. 22 in that
memo. He's talking about Tampa Nov. 18.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-azgrj-p9qOc/U62pHDxmgvI/AAAAAAAA1k8/Q5jldE38XyM/s1600-h/CD821-Boring.png

[OHLeeRedux]

mainframetech
- show quoted text -

You've made a mistake in your thinking. When others come up with
reasons why the standard commentary isn't true, then you have the
responsibility to investigate those comments and prove them true or false,
and go with what you found.

A number of people were in the stairway right after the shots rang out
in the Plaza, and Baker and Truly accosted Oswald on the 2nd floor soon
after too. They found Oswald (not out of breath) having a coke. The
people in the stairway didn't see anyone come down at the times they were
there.

NO ONE has done the work of showing how Oswald did the job given the
testimony and statements of the people involved, and yet you wonder why
the subject keeps coming up,. Since NOTHING has been done to eliminate
the proofs supplied about Oswald's position in the TSBD, those comments
will continue to come up, and I guess you will have to hear them until you
solve the problem of the facts.

Chris

Oswald was on the sixth floor with his rifle at the time of the
assassination. That has been proven beyond any doubt. That didn't stop him
from running down the stairs and trying to look innocent after he shot the
president. You are being ridiculous.

[Anthony Marsh]

That is simply not true. We also have Boring and Blaine on record as to
JFK's wish that the agents stay off the limo.

And you haven't heard JFK cutting into subordinates doing things he
didn't like. In fact you've never actually listened to ANY WH tapes.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 6/29/2014 11:01 PM, mainframetech wrote:
> On Saturday, June 28, 2014 8:37:10 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
>> So, Squinty, actual SIGNED STATEMENTS by two different Secret Service
>>
>> agents -- Behn and Boring -- wherein they both say that JFK told each of
>>
>> them PERSONALLY about not wanting the agents close to the car -- still
>>
>> isn't good enough for you?
>>
>>
>>
>> Do you think both of these detailed statements are filled with lies? ....
>>
>>
>>
>> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8gJWQRd7Neg/U62pHP9uhVI/AAAAAAAA1k0/KYcbxc5Qq4c/s1600-h/CD821-Behn.png
>>
>>
>>
>> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-azgrj-p9qOc/U62pHDxmgvI/AAAAAAAA1k8/Q5jldE38XyM/s1600-h/CD821-Boring.png
>>
>>
>
>
> Well now, yes. Since the Behn memo was produced dated 4/16/64 I would
> suggest that it was a bit late for the agents on the day of the murder to
> heed such a ruling. Was the memo a cover up for the argument as to
> whether the order was given or not? And later we'll see that the Boring
> memo was only a few days before this one, as well.
>

The memo was not a ruling. It was an answer to the question of what the
policy was in November 1963. Remember, the limo was made with running
boards on the sides for the agents to stand on all the time. They decided
to never use them. It did not take a NSAM to decide that.

> IF an order was given by JFK, why was it not typed up into a memo for
> all the agents back then? Because it wasn't from JFK, and so was ignored
> until they had to cover their tails. THEN it got written up.
>

Not all orders from the President are typed up into an order.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 6/29/2014 10:59 PM, mainframetech wrote:
> On Saturday, June 28, 2014 9:27:02 PM UTC-4, OHLeeRedux wrote:
>> mainframetech
>>
>> On Friday, June 27, 2014 11:16:12 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
>>
>>> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/11/secret-service.html#Commission-Document-821
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Another effort to up the hit count on DVP's website.
>>
>>
>>
>> We've seen all the proof we need that JFK was easy to get along with as
>>
>> far as the SS was concerned, and that he never told them to get off the
>>
>> platforms. Which includes direct quotes from various SS agents. See the
>>
>> website of Vince Palamara, who is most familiar with the SS agents and
>>
>> their experiences.
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> JFK ordered the agents to stay off the limo. There is no question about
>>
>> that. Stop making things up as you go along.
>
>
>
> There are indeed questions about that, since many of the agents never
> heard of such a policy, and their view of JFK was of a man that would
> never use the phrase "ivy league charlatans'.
>

Many of the agents had not gone to Tampa.

[mainframetech]

Nope, won't do. You saying it proves nothing, and the evidence I have
mentioned suggests otherwise than your zero backup claim. There is more
than doubt, since the evidence says it didn't happen that way. Among the
reasons was that Oswald bought NO ammunition for the MC rifle, yet it was
advertised with the rifle. There was NO box of ammunition that went with
the 3 shells they found in the TSBD, they checked every sporting goods and
gun store around the area, and found that NONE of them sold any of that
type ammunition. I bet you don't even wonder about that.

I bet you don't wonder either how he could possibly have gotten to the
2nd floor from the 6th under the circumstances mentioned. I'm sure you
simply believed anything you heard from the WC and went away happy, with
NO sense of responsibility to find the guilty and punish them.

I bet you have no doubts about the honesty of the autopsy, and the 2
prosectors that damaged the body BEFORE the 'official' autopsy.

Chris

[mainframetech]

My apologies, you are correct about that one item. However, all the
other points I made have still not been addressed. Want to take a shot at
them?

We have the CYA dates on the 2 memos, as if the WC record is being made
right to match other statements from various people. If the so-called
"policy" was that JFK didn't want the agents riding the platforms, why
wasn't it put into a memo for all agents earlier when JFK was alive and
supposedly made the demand?

A number of SS agents said that hadn't heard the "policy", and even
Boring himself said something that varied with his own announcement that
JFK wanted "those ivy league charlatans" off the platforms. Look into
Boring's ARRB testimony and how he phrased it then. Completely at
variance with the previous report of him say it.

C'mon, give it a try.

Chris

[David Von Pein]

"MAINFRAME" SAID:

The "numerous occasions" mentioned has been taken out of context. ....
You'll see that it refers to the agents that run alongside, not the agents
on the platforms.


DAVID VON PEIN SAYS:

Anything else you'd care to nitpick?

(Geesh.)

[Bud]

On Sunday, June 29, 2014 11:02:27 PM UTC-4, mainframetech wrote:
> On Saturday, June 28, 2014 8:34:39 PM UTC-4, stevemg...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > On Friday, June 27, 2014 10:16:12 PM UTC-5, David Von Pein wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/11/secret-service.html#Commission-Document-821
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Good stuff.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > That will end this debate (hah).
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > For about, I'd say, two weeks. The it'll be resurrected.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Oswald's brother Robert put it best:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > "It's good that people raise questions and say, 'Wait a minute, let's take
>
> >
>
> > a second look at this.' But when you take the second look and the third
>
> >
>
> > and the 40th and the 50th, hey, enough's enough. It's there; put it to
>
> >
>
> > rest."
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Put it to rest.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Oswald shot JFK. End of story.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Did he have help? Okay, maybe, perhaps. But all of these attempts to run
>
> >
>
> > away from Oswald's involvement don't help us answer that question.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I think the answer is "No." But I haven't closed all the doors on that
>
> >
>
> > one.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > But this question? It's been answered. There's nothing there.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> You've made a mistake in your thinking. When others come up with
>
> reasons why the standard commentary isn't true, then you have the
>
> responsibility to investigate those comments and prove them true or false,
>
> and go with what you found.

You are playing silly games, you latch onto what you like the sound of,
and then contrive tortured rationals for what is actually you just
believing what you want to believe.

> A number of people were in the stairway right after the shots rang out
>
> in the Plaza,

Including Oswald.

> and Baker and Truly accosted

The cop confronted the murderer shortly after the murder but didn`t
realize he had the murderer.

> Oswald on the 2nd floor soon
>
> after too. They found Oswald (not out of breath) having a coke.

Nobody checked his breath and he didn`t have a Coke.

> The
>
> people in the stairway didn't see anyone come down at the times they were
>
> there.

Which means Oswald used the stairs when they weren`t on them.

>
>
> NO ONE has done the work of showing how Oswald did the job given the
>
> testimony and statements of the people involved,

No one has shown how there can be so many indications of his guilt and
him be innocent.

> and yet you wonder why
>
> the subject keeps coming up,. Since NOTHING has been done to eliminate
>
> the proofs supplied about Oswald's position in the TSBD,

How do we go about eliminating the figments of your imagination?

> those comments
>
> will continue to come up, and I guess you will have to hear them until you
>
> solve the problem of the facts.

You are playing silly games that are doomed to failure. You can`t go any
where because there is nowhere for you to go.

>
>
> Chris

[David Von Pein]

ANTHONY MARSH SAID:

And you haven't heard JFK cutting into subordinates doing things he didn't
like.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Just listen to JFK ripping John McCone a new anal crack here (at 11:40
into the audio file):

http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset-Viewer/Archives/JFKPOF-TPH-09A.aspx

"He's a real bastard, that John McCone." -- JFK

[Anthony Marsh]

Mason sold that brand. He denied selling any to Oswald. Oswald WHO?

[mainframetech]

Research must bother you something fierce...:)

Chris

[David Von Pein]

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/07/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-732.html

[Bud]

This is just another of those non-issues that conspiracy hobbyists can`t
go anywhere with.

[Anthony Marsh]

I didn't single YOU out. If you would follow the rules and quote
properly people could see to whom I directed my remark.
And I was especially thinking about the SUBORDINATE who decorated
Jackie's room at the hospital.


Steven Levingston
Steven Levingston

Nonfiction editor, The Washington Post
GET UPDATES FROM Steven Levingston

Like
'Five Thousand Dollars for That!' An Excerpt from The Kennedy Baby: The
Loss That Transformed JFK


Jackie had announced her intention of leaving Hyannis Port in late
August to deliver her baby by Caesarean section at Walter Reed Army
Hospital in Washington. "From the security standpoint," United Press
International reported, "the White House prefers that Mrs. Kennedy go to
Walter Reed where she would have more privacy in the Presidential Suite
on the fourth floor." But her past troubled pregnancies -- and Joan's
unexpected misfortune -- set in motion a search for a suitable backup
location on Cape Cod, should it be required. Her obstetrician, Dr. John
Walsh, had taken up residence on the Cape for the summer to be near his
most famous patient. Walsh, a former Army surgeon in World War II, had
delivered John-John in 1960. Caught in the media crush that accompanied
John-John's arrival, Walsh said he preferred to perform his job rather
than sit in the celebrity spotlight. As he told the press after the
birth, "I was sure nervous with so many newspapermen, cameras and
microphones around. I was far more at ease in the operating room." In
the summer of 1963, he was vacationing on Cape Cod but was also on the
job. A professor of obstetrics and gynecology at Georgetown University
Medical School, he turned over his practice in Washington and suburban
Maryland to another physician so he could attend to Jackie, and he
showed up at Brambletyde almost daily to check on her. Well-acquainted
with Jackie's medical history, he also toured three facilities on the
Cape, along with White House physician Janet Travell, in search of an
emergency delivery room.

While stressing that Jackie fully expected to give birth at Walter Reed,
the doctors agreed that the best secondary site was the hospital at Otis
Air Force Base, a 12-minute ride by car from Squaw Island -- and less by
helicopter. Jackie's pregnancy was progressing normally so far, and the
White House went out of its way to play down the attention given to
Otis. The New York Times reported that the project was only
"precautionary." White House press secretary Pierre Salinger assured the
public that "no special arrangements for the delivery were being made at
any hospital but Walter Reed."

That didn't stop the Air Force from sprucing up a wing at the hospital
for Jackie's use in an emergency. Building 3703 was a one-story wooden
structure connected to the delivery room by a 100-foot breezeway. It had
six bedrooms, two lounges, a kitchen and a nursery. Jackie's room was
outfitted with a standard hospital bed and chairs, a dresser and color
television. There was also a room for the President that had rugs, a
bedside table with phone and an adjoining mahogany-paneled sitting room
with American southwest-style furniture. Air-conditioning was installed
-- making this wing the only one at the hospital with the cooling
devices -- and an electric dishwasher and garbage disposal unit added
the latest in modern amenities.

But Air Force apparently went too far. On July 25, the President was
alarmed to see a press photo of a smiling officer standing next to
Jackie's bed in the spruced-up wing. In another shot, the President
gazed upon a handsome bureau and lamp on a side table. The wing's
upgrade, JFK learned, cost about $5,000 (about $40,000 in today's
dollars), and he was livid. The military's profligate expenditures on
behalf of the President's wife were a public relations disaster. Kennedy
phoned his Assistant Secretary of Defense Arthur Sylvester and railed
about out-of-control military spending.

"Five thousand dollars for that!" he cried. "Let's cut their budget
another hundred million."
Sylvester explained that he told the Air Force to keep the press out of
the hospital -- under no circumstances were reporters or photographers
to see the upgrade. But, he informed the President, "They went ahead on
their own."

The President was fixated on the captain in charge of the refurbishing
and on the furniture in the photograph -- attractive pieces from Jordan
Marsh department store in downtown Boston. He wanted to know what the
items cost and if the bills had already been paid. "I'd just like to
send that goddamn furniture back," he said. "I'd love to send it right
back to Jordan Marsh in an Air Force truck this afternoon with that
captain on it." His aide laughed and the President joined him: "Now,
what about transferring his ass out of here in about a month? ...For
incompetence, not for screwing us ...And that silly fellow who had his
picture taken next to the bed, have him go up to Alaska."

Next, the President got Air Force General Godfrey McHugh on the phone.
"See that fellow's picture by the bed," he began. "Yes, sir," replied
the general in a meek tone. Kennedy lacerated him, his sharp voice
unrelenting. "And did you see that furniture they bought from Jordan
Marsh? What the hell did they let the reporters in there for? Are they
crazy up there? Now you know what that's gonna do? Any congressman is
going to get up and say, 'Christ, if they can throw $5000 away on this,
let's cut 'em another billion dollars.' You just sank the Air Force
budget! You're crazy up there! Are they crazy? That silly bastard with
his picture next to the bed?"

Almost in a mumble, the general said: "Sir, I'm appalled but..."

"Well, I'm appalled too." Kennedy cut him off. "I mean, he's a silly
bastard. I wouldn't have him running a cathouse! ...Christ, they're all
incompetents!"

The penitent general tried to explain: "Why, sir, this is obviously..."

"Well, this is obviously a f*ckup!" the President roared, and the
conversation was over. The President's press secretary Pierre Salinger
was sent out to quell the controversy.

In his morning briefing, he told reporters that the Air Force had not
informed the President of its refurbishing plan. "We had never heard
about it until we read it in the newspaper," he said. The Washington
Post reported that an anonymous Defense Department spokesman had
confirmed the $5,000 expenditure but insisted that the money went only
toward standard upgrades for the room and did not include any purchases
of furniture. But the Post story contained an admission by an anonymous
Jordan Marsh spokesman that the store had supplied the furnishings. The
store's merchandising manager of home furnishings clarified: "We have
definite instructions not to give out any information on any work we
have done for that family." And when asked if he meant the First Family,
he said, "Yes."

As heated as the President got, his concern turned out to be misplaced.
The storm blew over quickly. The press scarcely pursued the story, and
the White House and the military sidestepped any fallout.

Excerpt from The Kennedy Baby: The Loss That Transformed JFK (Diversion
Books, � 2013 by The Washington Post)

[David Von Pein]

W. ANTHONY MARSH SAID:

I didn't single YOU out.

DAVID R. VON PEIN SAID:

I know it.

No need to get your bowels in an uproar, Tony. I'm *agreeing* with you on
this topic, for Pete sake. Why do you insist on arguing with everybody
about everything?

I was merely providing info about another time when JFK was raking someone
over the coals in a private phone conversation. And I found it quite
interesting to find a Dictabelt recording between JFK and RFK wherein JFK
calls John McCone not only a "bastard", but he also calls McCone "stupid"
and "a horse's ass", to boot. :-)

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/07/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-732.html

[Anthony Marsh]

Wouldn't you love to see what he said on the tapes they destroyed. Why
don't YOU file an FOIA request? Just tell them you are a WC defender
trying to debunk the infamous Anthony Marsh and I bet they'd give them
to you.

[Ace Kefford]

On Saturday, June 28, 2014 11:34:05 AM UTC-4, Lanny wrote:
> On Friday, June 27, 2014 11:16:12 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
>
> > http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/11/secret-service.html#Commission-Document-821
>
>
>
> Last I heard, Palamara was still busy absolving himself of blame for
>
> misidentifying Don Lawton as Henry Rybka -- and still implying Emory
>
> Roberts was calling a last minute audible to "strip" the President of a
>
> layer of security to (obviously) facilitate the attack Roberts surely knew
>
> was coming.
>
>
>
> In other words, "Kooktoons."

Classic case of someone getting too deep into the case, thinking he
(almost always a "he") has found some key evidence that cracks it), and
then refusing to move off it.

[mainframetech]

On Thursday, July 3, 2014 6:57:35 PM UTC-4, Ace Kefford wrote:
> On Saturday, June 28, 2014 11:34:05 AM UTC-4, Lanny wrote:
>
> > On Friday, June 27, 2014 11:16:12 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/11/secret-service.html#Commission-Document-821
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Last I heard, Palamara was still busy absolving himself of blame for
>
> >
>
> > misidentifying Don Lawton as Henry Rybka -- and still implying Emory
>
> >
>
> > Roberts was calling a last minute audible to "strip" the President of a
>
> >
>
> > layer of security to (obviously) facilitate the attack Roberts surely knew
>
> >
>
> > was coming.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > In other words, "Kooktoons."
>

Think about it. Do you really think Palamara would spend so much time
apologizing for a name mistake? And do you think that one small mistake
means that anything he says is not to be believed? Wrong.

>
>
> Classic case of someone getting too deep into the case, thinking he
>
> (almost always a "he") has found some key evidence that cracks it), and
>
> then refusing to move off it.

Good lord! Your link goes the DVP site! I can't depend on that site
for objective reporting, so I don't use it for any proofs of anything.

Chris

[Bud]

This is the guy who cites Mark Lane videos.

[magoos...@msn.com]

On Saturday, June 28, 2014 7:37:10 PM UTC-5, David Von Pein wrote:
> So, Squinty, actual SIGNED STATEMENTS by two different Secret Service
>
> agents -- Behn and Boring -- wherein they both say that JFK told each of
>
> them PERSONALLY about not wanting the agents close to the car -- still
>
> isn't good enough for you?
>
> Do you think both of these detailed statements are filled with lies? ....
>
> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8gJWQRd7Neg/U62pHP9uhVI/AAAAAAAA1k0/KYcbxc5Qq4c/s1600-h/CD821-Behn.png
>
>
>
> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-azgrj-p9qOc/U62pHDxmgvI/AAAAAAAA1k8/Q5jldE38XyM/s1600-h/CD821-Boring.png
>
>
>

> Also....
>
> In addition to the "numerous" occasions where Kennedy expressed his
>
> displeasure about the agents being close to the car to Gerald Behn, the
>
> conspiracists should find Floyd Boring's alleged "lies" that he told in
>
> CD821 to be rather interesting in an *extended* way too, because Agent
>
> Boring talks not only about the Nov. 18 incident in Tampa, but Boring also
>
> says that "a similar request was made by President Kennedy to me on July
>
> 2, 1963...in Rome, Italy".
>
>
>

> So, Boring recalled a specific additional incident when JFK told Boring
>

> personally that he didn't want the agents on the car.

>
>
>
> But, I guess CTers like Vincent Palamara must think that Boring thought it
>
> would look good on paper to tell MORE LIES, with specific dates and
>
> locations added in.

Those are nice, after the fact, documents. But the problem with
Boring's memo goes beyond being six months after the fact.

It refers only to JFK's desire that agents not ride on the limo when
"crowds along the route were sparse...." Indeed, the examples cited
are ones where the crowds had thinned, motorcade speed had increased
and JFK did not want the agents on the car.

The examples fly in face of the supposed reason for JFK's request, so
that the public could see him.

Squinty Magoo

[mainframetech]

> This is the guy who cites Mark Lane videos.

You still don't realize that denigrating Lane's efforts doesn't mean
his witnesses lied. They can be judged just like any witness in front of
a jury. But the viewer.

Chris

[Bud]

Lane`s efforts make it impossible to discern what the witnesses he
interviewed actually said.

> They can be judged just like any witness in front of
>
> a jury.

It`s not like that at all, thats the point.

> But the viewer.
>
>
>
> Chris

[David Von Pein]

Any more paper-thin excuses you'd like to come up with to try and salvage
Vince Palamara's claim that JFK **never once** said anything to any of the
Secret Service agents about not wanting the agents on the limo?

In light of the actual documents I produced via CD821, any such excuses
that attempt to resurrect Palamara's stance (regardless of how many agents
he personally interviewed who said otherwise) are going to look mighty
weak indeed.

[Anthony Marsh]

Wrong. If you ever have agents on the back of the car it is when the
crowds are surging and may present a threat or routinely when the
motorcade slows down. Agents sometimes walked the whole route.
JFK's request was during the Tampa motorccade.

> Squinty Magoo
>

[mainframetech]

On Saturday, July 5, 2014 1:26:48 PM UTC-4, magoos...@msn.com wrote:

It would save a lot of time to read the testimony to the ARRB that
Floyd Boring gave. Talk about sounding guilty of something, that was it.
The first things he said were:

"I didn't have anything to do with it, and I don't know anything".
From: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/palamara/boring_arrb.html

The 2 CYA memos 6 months later show that the SS agents weren't playing it
straight when they wrote the CYA memos. If JFK wanted them off the
platforms under certain circumstances, why was it that that was not
written up as policy and handed out to other agents? And why was it that
if the president himself wanted something to be done, that many of the
other agents didn't hear that request at all, and thought that JFK would
never give such orders? Because he never gave such orders, and Boring
made it up. Once it was heard by Clint Hill though, it had to be written
up to cover it up and sound like normal policy.

Chris

[Anthony Marsh]

Because it didn't operate that way. All the President has to do is tell
the head of the detail what he wants done. No need for memos.

> if the president himself wanted something to be done, that many of the
> other agents didn't hear that request at all, and thought that JFK would
> never give such orders? Because he never gave such orders, and Boring
> made it up. Once it was heard by Clint Hill though, it had to be written
> up to cover it up and sound like normal policy.
>
> Chris
>

We don't know that for sure. Palamara is an unreliable source.

>

[mainframetech]

Nope, won't do. A couple of CYA memos 6 months after the murder won't
help you make your point at all. If JFK wanted agents off the platforms,
why wasn't it properly documented at that time and passed around to all
the agents? It would be a failure of responsibility for Rowley to have
ignored that new 'policy', yet you're ready to listen to any CYA memos he
produced, and this one isn't the only one he wrote at around that time.

As well, if JFK had said that he wanted the agents off the platforms,
even under certain circumstances, why wasn't that information passed
around to all the agents, even without a memo? Many agents said they
never heard that stuff about the platforms, and that JFK had no complaints
and was easy to deal with. Also, using the phrase "ivy league charlatans"
wasn't JFK's style either.

Chris

[David Von Pein]

You're being silly, mainframe. There are FIVE separate statements inside
CD821. You'll ignore all five and insist that all FIVE agents were lying
because they were in "CYA" mode in April 1964.

But, just the same, those five statements will still be there tomorrow,
next week, and next year. I guess you'll just have to live with it (as you
pretend to know that ALL FIVE agents were lying their asses off in each
statement).

I love stuff like CD821. When a document like that pops up, it makes it so
easy to make conspiracy theorists look foolish. And Chris/Mainframe is
doing an outstanding job of obliging. Because he sure looks mighty foolish
as he tries to combat Warren Commission Document No. 821.

[Anthony Marsh]

It boomerangs back on you when you deny that Rowley lied.
Or claim that there were clothes on that stretcher or that it doesn't
matter.

[mainframetech]

Why do you pretend that a document written months after the murder has
any validity? It was a CYA memo the same as Rowleys that was written
around the same time, and if the things it mentioned in it were true, then
they should have made it policy and issued a memo to all protectors to
follow the new policy. Even if it were informal policy, the information
should have been passed around among all agents that guarded the
president. Yet none of that was done. And many agents said there was NO
policy about the platforms. We also find the famous Floyd Boring telling
that same thing to the interviewer:

http://www.jfklancer.com/LNE/limo.html

Chris

[David Von Pein]

CHRIS/MAINFRAME SAID:

...they should have made it policy and issued a memo to all protectors to
follow the new policy.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I love it when a conspiracy theorist thinks *he* gets to decide what
"should" have been done in a given circumstance.

Chris, of course, is merely engaging in CTer wishful-thinking (as usual).

To think that ALL FIVE Secret Service agents who wrote up memos in
Commission Document No. 821 would deliberately write FALSE SIGNED
statements about the President's desires concerning his Secret Service
protection is simply NOT a reasonable thing to believe.

And the fact is that Clint Hill even tells us in his signed statement that
"no written instructions regarding this were ever distributed". Here is
Hill's exact quote from CD821:

"It was general knowledge on the White House Detail...that President
Kennedy had asked Special Agent in Charge Gerald A. Behn not to have
Special Agents ride on the rear of the Presidential Automobile. No written
instructions regarding this were ever distributed." -- Clinton J. Hill

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11219&relPageId=8

[Bud]

On Monday, July 7, 2014 2:17:59 PM UTC-4, mainframetech wrote:
> On Sunday, July 6, 2014 7:36:34 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
>
> > You're being silly, mainframe. There are FIVE separate statements inside
>
> >
>
> > CD821. You'll ignore all five and insist that all FIVE agents were lying
>
> >
>
> > because they were in "CYA" mode in April 1964.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > But, just the same, those five statements will still be there tomorrow,
>
> >
>
> > next week, and next year. I guess you'll just have to live with it (as you
>
> >
>
> > pretend to know that ALL FIVE agents were lying their asses off in each
>
> >
>
> > statement).
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I love stuff like CD821. When a document like that pops up, it makes it so
>
> >
>
> > easy to make conspiracy theorists look foolish. And Chris/Mainframe is
>
> >
>
> > doing an outstanding job of obliging. Because he sure looks mighty foolish
>
> >
>
> > as he tries to combat Warren Commission Document No. 821.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Why do you pretend that a document written months after the murder has
>
> any validity?

You seem to be taking the position that all the interviews of agents
that Vince Palamara did over the years aren`t valid.

[Anthony Marsh]

That means nothing to the kooks. Then they'll claim that Hill ran up to
the limo to fire the fatal shot.

[mainframetech]

To DVP: You'll have to think over your statement above. You said "I

love it when a conspiracy theorist thinks *he* gets to decide what
"should" have been done in a given circumstance.

Anyone that wants to can state what they think about any particular
situation. I object to your thinking that I have no right to make public
my own ideas of what 'should' be done. You have expressed your opinions
all over the place, and now you want to control mine? Naah. And that has
nothing to do with wishful thinking. The facts stand. And CYA memos long
after a problem was found don't count for a hill of beans. Rowley had
been found lying before.

Not to mention that my belief that policy should have been typed up and
distributed is NOT a bad idea for the protection of JFK, and for true CYA
purposes.

Thank you for verifying that NO MEMO was ever put out to state the
policy of not riding on the platforms. And for all the agents you can
find saying one thing, Palamara finds more that said otherwise. If even
one agent said that there was no rule, then safety wasn't taken to the
utmost point.

But you still have many named agents that said there was NO rule or
policy. And my guess is that you probably haven't checked Floyd Boring's
ARRB testimony yet.

Chris

[cmikes]

On Monday, July 7, 2014 10:28:11 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
> On Monday, July 7, 2014 2:17:59 PM UTC-4, mainframetech wrote:
>

Stuff Trimmed

> >
>
> > Why do you pretend that a document written months after the murder has
>
> >
>
> > any validity?
>
>
>
> You seem to be taking the position that all the interviews of agents
>
> that Vince Palamara did over the years aren`t valid.
>

Chris, if documents written months after the assassination are invalid,
what about interviews done thirty to forty years after the assassination
that directly contradict what the participants said immediately after the
assassination? Are they invalid also?

[Bud]

He doesn`t seem to realize that the reason of lot of this information
was gathered was *because* JFK was killed. The killing of a President must
generate inquiry among the people protecting him. Of course the people who
shout "How did this happen?" and "Why did this happen?" the loudest reject
the answers that go against what they are desperate to believe.

[mainframetech]

I don't say memos written 6 months after the event are invalid. But
they are hard to believe that they are legitimate when they weren't issued
when JFK was alive, and put out only 6 months after he died. A different
president may have different needs for security than JFK, so why bother
putting out memos that no longer apply, since the president they referred
to is dead? They are obvious CYA memos as anyone in business would be
familiar with.

The difference is that the CYA memos applied to JFK while he was alive,
not after he died. How many witness interviews can you show that
"...directly contradict what the participants said immediately after the
assassination?" And as you may know, the first answer from a witness
usually is the most correct one. That's not a hard and fast rule, but
something that police investigators generally follow.

This case is unique in that many of the witnesses were ordered to be
silent about what their experiences were during the JFK events, such as
the autopsy. As well, there were many other parts of the investigation
and many documents that were kept classified that should have been (by law
public knowledge and available to all. 30 years later is the first time
many of the witnesses were allowed to speak after the 'order of silence'
was lifted. That means that many witnesses could not speak earlier in the
case, and HAD to wait for the lifting of the order.

Chris

[Anthony Marsh]

If documents written months after the assassination are invalid,
what about WC testimonies done months after the assassination that

[Anthony Marsh]

You have to remember that DVP is against free thought. You must only
think what the government tells you. Otherwise you are a thought
criminal and it's ok to DRONE you.

> all over the place, and now you want to control mine? Naah. And that has
> nothing to do with wishful thinking. The facts stand. And CYA memos long
> after a problem was found don't count for a hill of beans. Rowley had
> been found lying before.
>
> Not to mention that my belief that policy should have been typed up and
> distributed is NOT a bad idea for the protection of JFK, and for true CYA
> purposes.
>

Hill explained that there was no need to type up JFK's orders. Can you
show me any typed up orders from Obama to his chef about which foods he
doesn't like? Maybe from Michelle. Not from Barack.

> Thank you for verifying that NO MEMO was ever put out to state the
> policy of not riding on the platforms. And for all the agents you can

Show me the typed up memos that say how many cyclists they should use
and how to position them. Show me the typed memo from JFK that morning
that says leave the roof off. You are being silly.

> find saying one thing, Palamara finds more that said otherwise. If even
> one agent said that there was no rule, then safety wasn't taken to the
> utmost point.
>

Safety was NEVER taken to the utmost. JFK was allowed to ride around in
an open convertible. Now, not so much. There was not an agent in each
building making sure that all the windows were closed.
Agents did not ride on the running boards on each side of the limo.
The limo was not bullet proof.
Find the most secure leader with the most precautions and someone will
find a way to assassinate him.

> But you still have many named agents that said there was NO rule or

Wrong.

> policy. And my guess is that you probably haven't checked Floyd Boring's
> ARRB testimony yet.
>

Maybe you think Boring was part of he conspiracy. Many palace coups are
inside jobs by the bodyguards.

> Chris
>
>
>
>

[Bud]

On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 4:09:49 PM UTC-4, mainframetech wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 7:42:44 PM UTC-4, cmikes wrote:
>
> > On Monday, July 7, 2014 10:28:11 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > On Monday, July 7, 2014 2:17:59 PM UTC-4, mainframetech wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Stuff Trimmed
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Why do you pretend that a document written months after the murder has
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > any validity?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > You seem to be taking the position that all the interviews of agents
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > that Vince Palamara did over the years aren`t valid.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Chris, if documents written months after the assassination are invalid,
>
> >
>
> > what about interviews done thirty to forty years after the assassination
>
> >
>
> > that directly contradict what the participants said immediately after the
>
> >
>
> > assassination? Are they invalid also?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I don't say memos written 6 months after the event are invalid.

No, just the ones you don`t like. The ones that go against your silly
ideas.

> But
>
> they are hard to believe that they are legitimate when they weren't issued
>
> when JFK was alive, and put out only 6 months after he died. A different
>
> president may have different needs for security than JFK, so why bother
>
> putting out memos that no longer apply, since the president they referred
>
> to is dead?

This shows just how clueless Chris is. Doesn`t he think they might want
to determine how Kennedy came to be dead, to avoid this occurrence in the
future?

> They are obvious CYA memos as anyone in business would be
>
> familiar with.

Conspiracy hobbyist love making empty assertions like this.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 7/9/2014 4:09 PM, mainframetech wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 7:42:44 PM UTC-4, cmikes wrote:
>> On Monday, July 7, 2014 10:28:11 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, July 7, 2014 2:17:59 PM UTC-4, mainframetech wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Stuff Trimmed
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>> Why do you pretend that a document written months after the murder has
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>> any validity?
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> You seem to be taking the position that all the interviews of agents
>>
>>>
>>
>>> that Vince Palamara did over the years aren`t valid.
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris, if documents written months after the assassination are invalid,
>>
>> what about interviews done thirty to forty years after the assassination
>>
>> that directly contradict what the participants said immediately after the
>>
>> assassination? Are they invalid also?
>
>
>
> I don't say memos written 6 months after the event are invalid. But
> they are hard to believe that they are legitimate when they weren't issued
> when JFK was alive, and put out only 6 months after he died. A different
> president may have different needs for security than JFK, so why bother
> putting out memos that no longer apply, since the president they referred
> to is dead? They are obvious CYA memos as anyone in business would be
> familiar with.
>

Well, I got a clue for you. No one thought to ask JFK for a memo before
he was assassinated. We asked Obama for his memo to his chief asking
that some foods not be served, but he said he didn't need to issue such
memos.

Upon leaving the Michelin-starred restaurant featured in Jiro Dream of
Sushi, Abe said Obama proclaimed it the ?best sushi I?ve ever had in my
life.? So why didn?t he finish it?! According to AFP, the owner of a
nearby restaurant claims the president put his chopsticks down at the
halfway point in the meal. When questioned, chief government spokesman
Yoshihide Suga would only say Obama ?ate a good amount? and, ?I can tell
from his expression he was very much satisfied.?

One of George H.W. Bush's presidential decrees left schoolchildren
everywhere cheering: During a news conference he stated, "I do not like
broccoli and I haven't liked it since I was a little kid and my mother
made me eat it." He ruffled a few parental feathers when he finished the
statement by saying, "And I'm president of the United States and I'm not
going to eat any more broccoli." Extending his executive privilege to hot
sauce, which he liked just as much as he disliked broccoli, President Bush
topped off everything from eggs to pork rinds just like a good ole boy
from Texas.

> The difference is that the CYA memos applied to JFK while he was alive,
> not after he died. How many witness interviews can you show that
> "...directly contradict what the participants said immediately after the
> assassination?" And as you may know, the first answer from a witness
> usually is the most correct one. That's not a hard and fast rule, but
> something that police investigators generally follow.
>

Then why were there no SS agents riding on the back of LBJ's limo?
Why do SS agents not ride on the back of Obama's limo?

> This case is unique in that many of the witnesses were ordered to be
> silent about what their experiences were during the JFK events, such as
> the autopsy. As well, there were many other parts of the investigation
> and many documents that were kept classified that should have been (by law
> public knowledge and available to all. 30 years later is the first time

Not sure what that means with all the cluttered punctuation. Are you
saying that ALL documents should be or are public knowledge? Including the
one about the CIA's secret stash of smallpox?

Forgotten vials of smallpox found in government storage room

The Associated Press

Government workers cleaning out an old storage room at a research center
near Washington made a startling discovery last week - decades-old vials
of smallpox packed away and forgotten in a cardboard box.

The six glass vials of freeze-dried virus were intact and sealed with
melted glass, and the virus may well have been dead, because it wasn't
kept cold over the years, officials at the Centers for Disease Control
and Prevention said Tuesday.

Still, the find was disturbing because for decades after smallpox was
declared eradicated in the 1980s, world health authorities believed the
only samples left were safely stored in super-secure laboratories in
Atlanta and in Russia.

Officials said this is the first time that unaccounted-for smallpox has
been discovered.

It was the second recent incident in which a government health agency
appeared to have mishandled a highly dangerous germ. Last month, a
laboratory safety lapse at the CDC in Atlanta led the agency to give
scores of employees antibiotics as a precaution against anthrax.

The smallpox virus samples were found in a building at the National
Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland, that has been used by the
Food and Drug Administration since 1972, according to the CDC.

Officials said the vials may have been stored there since the 1950s - no
records were found that said exactly when they were placed there.

No one has been infected, and no smallpox contamination was found in the
building.

Smallpox can be deadly even after it is freeze-dried, but the virus
usually has to be kept cold to remain alive and dangerous.

These vials were stored for many years at room temperature, said Stephan
Monroe, deputy director of the CDC center that handles highly dangerous
infectious agents.

"We don't yet know if it's live and infectious. It's possible it could
be inactivated because of long length of storage," he said.

The samples were rushed to the CDC in Atlanta and will undergo up to two
weeks of testing to establish whether they are dead, Monroe said. Then
they will be destroyed.

Smallpox was one of the most lethal diseases in history. For centuries,
it killed about one-third of the people it infected, including Queen
Mary II of England, and left most survivors with deep scars on their
faces from the pus-filled lesions.

The last known case was in Britain in 1978, when a university
photographer who worked above a lab handling smallpox died after being
accidentally exposed to it from the ventilation system.

Global vaccination campaigns finally brought smallpox under control.
After it was declared eradicated, all known remaining samples of live
virus were stored at a CDC lab in Atlanta and at a Russian lab in
Novosibirsk, Siberia.

The labs have the highest possible security measures. Scientists who
work with the virus use fingerprint or retinal scans to get inside, wear
full-body suits including gloves and goggles, and shower with strong
disinfectant before leaving the labs.

The U.S. smallpox stockpile, which includes samples from Britain, Japan
and the Netherlands, is stored in liquid nitrogen.

There has long been debate about whether to destroy the known samples.

Many scientists argue the deadly virus should be definitively wiped off
the planet and believe any remaining samples pose a threat. Others argue
the samples are needed for research on better treatments and vaccines.

At its recent annual meeting in May, the member countries of the World
Health Organization decided once again to delay a decision.

Or Sidney Gottlieb's secret stash of Cyanotoxin?

[mainframetech]

The memos weren't written with the idea in mind to avoid the problems of
the murder for the future, they were written to cover up something that
was mentioned that would put some blame on Floyd Boring, who acted very
guilty at the opening of his ARRB interview. Anyone can read them and see
it.

>
>
> > They are obvious CYA memos as anyone in business would be
>
> >
>
> > familiar with.
>
>
>
> Conspiracy hobbyist love making empty assertions like this.
>

As a JFK hobbyist you've just done it...:)

[Bud]

In other words this is just hobbyist figuring, grasping at what you like
the sound of and rejecting what you don`t.

>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > They are obvious CYA memos as anyone in business would be
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > familiar with.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Conspiracy hobbyist love making empty assertions like this.
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> As a JFK hobbyist you've just done it...:)

No, that was an astute observation.