Kinney Deathbed Confession?

[John McAdams]

http://forum.assassinationofjfk.net/index.php/topic/195-breaking-jfk-ss-agents-deathbed-confession/?p=1410
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

[mainframetech]

On Saturday, April 26, 2014 1:36:30 AM UTC-4, John McAdams wrote:
> http://forum.assassinationofjfk.net/index.php/topic/195-breaking-jfk-ss-agents-deathbed-confession/?p=1410
>
> .John
>


John,

Do you have any reason to disbelieve that the statement came originally
from Kinney?

It was a CT in the SS on the QT saying it was a conspiracy, and saying
that he saw indications that a shot came from the Grassy Knoll. If he
really put the bullet up on s stretcher and said nothing that seems a bit
doubtful. It was a murder, who knows what evidence might be important,
like where a bullet was found? And yet he didn't say that anything about
what he did. However, it doesn't change the situation of the bullet being
unidentified by 4 men who supposedly had seen the bullet on a different
day. It also doesn't change the situation of the bullet (CE399) being
swapped for an MC bullet that had been used in testing either. A shame
the question couldn't be asked of Kinney as to the shape of the bullet.

If the statements were true from Kinney, then the question had to be
asked why was he silent about it for all those years and after? Was there
a definite intention from the powers that be to supply the 'lone nut'
theory and make it stick, so that no one would speak against that scenario
or look further for a conspirator?

For Sam Kinney, Rest in Peace, and join the theorists...:)

Chris

[Walt]

I knocked on that door..... A eyeball behind a tiny window yelled "You get
outta here.... We have a choir that knows the songs to sing, so we don't
want to listen you singin " I did it my way"

[Bud]

On Saturday, April 26, 2014 10:35:42 AM UTC-4, mainframetech wrote:
> On Saturday, April 26, 2014 1:36:30 AM UTC-4, John McAdams wrote:
>
> > http://forum.assassinationofjfk.net/index.php/topic/195-breaking-jfk-ss-agents-deathbed-confession/?p=1410
>
> >
>
> > .John
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> John,
>
>
>
> Do you have any reason to disbelieve that the statement came originally
>
> from Kinney?

Other than the ability to think critically?

>
>
> It was a CT in the SS on the QT saying it was a conspiracy, and saying
>
> that he saw indications that a shot came from the Grassy Knoll.

In the Beltway Sniper case there were "indications" that the shots came
from a white van. Turned out those indications meant nothing.

> If he
>
> really put the bullet up on s stretcher and said nothing that seems a bit
>
> doubtful.

Since when will a hobbyist doubt a story they like the sound of? A fantastic story that makes no amount of sense which is the result of triple hearsay is good strong stuff to the hobbyists.

> It was a murder, who knows what evidence might be important,
>
> like where a bullet was found?

Are you saying an SS agent might not immediately start moving evidence
around willy-nilly? What do you base this on?

> And yet he didn't say that anything about
>
> what he did. However, it doesn't change the situation of the bullet being
>
> unidentified by 4 men who supposedly had seen the bullet on a different
>
> day.

How could they make a positive identification if they hadn`t marked it
somehow?

> It also doesn't change the situation of the bullet (CE399) being
>
> swapped for an MC bullet that had been used in testing either.

Conspiracy hobbyist figuring.

> A shame
>
> the question couldn't be asked of Kinney as to the shape of the bullet.

What makes you think Kinney saw a bullet?

>
>
> If the statements were true from Kinney, then the question had to be
>
> asked why was he silent about it for all those years and after? Was there
>
> a definite intention from the powers that be to supply the 'lone nut'
>
> theory and make it stick, so that no one would speak against that scenario
>
> or look further for a conspirator?

Perhaps his neighbor was a hobbyist who truly believed that Oswald was a
patsy and was determined to create "evidence" for a cause that has so
little to call it`s own.

>
>
>
> For Sam Kinney, Rest in Peace, and join the theorists...:)

More slandering the dead.

>
>
> Chris

[claviger]

On Saturday, April 26, 2014 12:36:30 AM UTC-5, John McAdams wrote:

This story is a hoax and not a very good one at that. It is replete with
contradictions and absurdities. Whoever came up with this amateurish
story didn't know much about the case. The sad part is it makes Kinney
look like a cowardly buffoon who was disloyal to the President. I
seriously doubt that was the case.

[Anthony Marsh]

Consider your source. Triple hearsay from a kook Web site.

[David Von Pein]

Why on Earth would anybody want to transfer a bullet that started out IN
THE LIMOUSINE to a stretcher in a hallway inside the hospital? That is
totally insane. It never happened, and moreover nobody would ever even
WANT to do something idiotic like that even if they WERE trying to frame
Lee Oswald. Having the bullet IN THE CAR is much better than having it
found inside the hospital. Mr. Kinney's "cocktail" must have been a little
too strong that day.

[Mark OBLAZNEY]

This has been one very long, albeit hypnotizing, Gregorian Chant........
easy to forget the words, that's how you know it's working in there.

[COMRADE BLACK]

I thought that Jack Ruby planted the bullet after he took Sheba for a
walk.

[Anthony Marsh]

Hey, that's not far of you to use common sense. You're supposed to
swallow the story whole.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 4/26/2014 8:31 PM, David Von Pein wrote:

Why would you even believe anything of the hearsay?

[mainframetech]

I didn't get the impression that Kinney had been cowardly or disloyal at all. Where did you get your information, so we can check it out?

Chris

[mainframetech]

On Saturday, April 26, 2014 8:31:23 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:

Since the bullet was found on the WRONG stretcher, we must face the fact that someone put it there, and it would be interesting to know who, and where they got it. And since 4 men later wouldn't identify the bullet, we don't know that the bullet in custody (CE399) is still the original bullet placed on the stretcher.

Chris

[Anthony Marsh]

You don't even know the evidence in this case. CE399 was not found on a
stretcher. It was found on the floor near the elevator.
You misstate the facts to modify the evidence to fit your pet theories.

[OHLeeRedux]

mainframetech

On Saturday, April 26, 2014 8:31:23 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:

- show quoted text -

Since the bullet was found on the WRONG stretcher, we must face the fact that someone put it there, and it would be interesting to know who, and where they got it. And since 4 men later wouldn't identify the bullet, we don't know that the bullet in custody (CE399) is still the original bullet placed on the stretcher.

Chris

There was no "wrong stretcher." That is utter nonsense.

[Bud]

On Sunday, April 27, 2014 11:27:15 AM UTC-4, mainframetech wrote:
> On Saturday, April 26, 2014 8:31:23 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
>
> > Why on Earth would anybody want to transfer a bullet that started out IN
>
> >
>
> > THE LIMOUSINE to a stretcher in a hallway inside the hospital? That is
>
> >
>
> > totally insane. It never happened, and moreover nobody would ever even
>
> >
>
> > WANT to do something idiotic like that even if they WERE trying to frame
>
> >
>
> > Lee Oswald. Having the bullet IN THE CAR is much better than having it
>
> >
>
> > found inside the hospital. Mr. Kinney's "cocktail" must have been a little
>
> >
>
> > too strong that day.
>
>
>
>
>
> Since the bullet was found on the WRONG stretcher,

The person who found it said he wasn`t sure, so how can you be?

> we must face the fact that someone put it there,

This is from someone who can`t face the fact that Oswald killed Kennedy.

> and it would be interesting to know who, and where they got it.

Why not just imagine answers, since you only imagine it was planted?

> And since 4 men later wouldn't identify the bullet,

They didn`t mark it.

> we don't know that the bullet in custody (CE399) is still the original bullet placed on the stretcher.

*you* don`t know.

>
>
> Chris

[mainframetech]

Your comment is utter nonsense. You apparently have forgotten or never knew that the stretcher was tracked down by a researcher to be that of a small boy who had been admitted to Parkland named Ronnie Fuller.

"According to research done by Josiah Thompson, the bullet was found on a stretcher used by a young boy named Ronny Fuller!"
From: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/palamara.htm

As well, the bullet in custody was later shown to 4 people that had handled it when it was found by Tomlinson. Not one of them would identify the bullet, and one of them said what he was shown was the wrong shape. It was round nosed (like the MC ammunition), but the original was pointy nosed!

Chris

[David Von Pein]

TONY MARSH SAID:

CE399...was found on the floor near the elevator.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Totally untrue. I wonder why in the world you're saying such a thing?

Mr. TOMLINSON -- "I bumped the wall and a spent cartridge or bullet rolled
out that apparently had been lodged under the edge of the mat."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pog1b4y6oz8

[David Von Pein]

BULLET ADDENDUM---

Darrell Tomlinson confirmed for Raymond Marcus in 1966 that the bullet he
(Tomlinson) found was never on the floor. Marcus specifically asked him
that question, in fact.....

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OkszAXPYCLM/Tubf6UQmxbI/AAAAAAAAA9A/UkYZ9vmu6us/s1600-h/Marcus-Tomlinson-Interview-Transcript-Page-2.jpg

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/12/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-74.html

[Bud]

On Sunday, April 27, 2014 6:33:22 PM UTC-4, mainframetech wrote:
> On Sunday, April 27, 2014 1:09:57 PM UTC-4, OHLeeRedux wrote:
>
> > mainframetech
>
> >
>
> > On Saturday, April 26, 2014 8:31:23 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
>
> >
>
> > - show quoted text -
>
> >
>
> > Since the bullet was found on the WRONG stretcher, we must face the fact that someone put it there, and it would be interesting to know who, and where they got it. And since 4 men later wouldn't identify the bullet, we don't know that the bullet in custody (CE399) is still the original bullet placed on the stretcher.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Chris
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > There was no "wrong stretcher." That is utter nonsense.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your comment is utter nonsense. You apparently have forgotten or never knew that the stretcher was tracked down by a researcher to be that of a small boy who had been admitted to Parkland named Ronnie Fuller.

You apparently have forgotten or never knew that the person who found
the bullet said he wasn`t sure which Tretcher he found the bullet on.

>
>
> "According to research done by Josiah Thompson, the bullet was found on a stretcher used by a young boy named Ronny Fuller!"
>
> From: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/palamara.htm
>
>
>
> As well, the bullet in custody was later shown to 4 people that had handled it when it was found by Tomlinson. Not one of them would identify the bullet, and one of them said what he was shown was the wrong shape. It was round nosed (like the MC ammunition), but the original was pointy nosed!

Perhaps you`ve forgotten or never knew that Tomlinson said the bullet in
evidence looks like the bullet he found.


>
>
> Chris

[mainframetech]

You may be right, but then it was Wright that said it. one of the two
Parkland employees said it, and the other 2 who refused to identify the
bullet were SS agents.


Tomlinson at a later time said that he was sure and it WASN'T the
Connally stretcher. If you remember there was a bullet found on the
Connally stretcher while he was in the operating room, and a nurse found
it and brought it out. They told her to hand it to a state cop, which she
did, and that was the end of it, since it was never seen again.

To see the drawing that Tomlinson made of the hallway and the stretchers
and their positions, go here:

http://jfkhistory.com/bell/bellarticle/BellArticle.html

There was even a story of another bullet that was seen laying next to
the head of JFK by a nurse Phyllis Hall, who said it was "pointed at its
tip". That one was never seen again either:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/nurse-phyllis-hall-tells-efforts-2713685

[Mike]

Nathan Pool heard an object fall from a stretcher...

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7215/pool4k.png

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/P%20Disk/Pool%20Nathan/Item%2003.pdf

[Anthony Marsh]

Perhaps you`ve forgotten or never knew that O.P. Wright said the
bullet in evidence looks nothing like the bullet they found.


Six Seconds in Dallas reported on an interview with O.P. Wright in
November 1966. Before any photos were shown or he was asked for any
description of #399, Wright said: ?That bullet had a pointed tip.?

?Pointed tip?? Thompson asked.

?Yeah, I?ll show you. It was like this one here,? he said, reaching into
his desk and pulling out the .30 caliber bullet pictured in Six
Seconds.?[8]

As Thompson described it in 1967, ?I then showed him photographs of CE?s
399, 572 (the two ballistics comparison rounds from Oswald?s rifle) (sic),
and 606 (revolver bullets) (sic), and he rejected all of these as
resembling the bullet Tomlinson found on the stretcher. Half an hour later
in the presence of two witnesses, he once again rejected the picture of
399 as resembling the bullet found on the stretcher.?[9] [Fig. 4]


Figure 4. In an interview in 1966, Parkland Hospital witness O.P. Wright
told author Thompson that the bullet he handled on 11/22/63 did not look
like C.E. # 399.

Thus in 1964 the Warren Commission, or rather the FBI, claimed that Wright
believed the original bullet resembled #399. In 1967, Wright denied there
was a resemblance. Recent FBI releases prompted by the JFK Review Board
support author Thompson?s 1967 report.

A declassified 6/20/64 FBI AIRTEL memorandum from the FBI office in Dallas
(?SAC, Dallas? ? i.e., Special Agent in Charge, Gordon Shanklin) to J.
Edgar Hoover contains the statement, ?For information WFO (FBI Washington
Field Office), neither DARRELL C. TOMLINSON [sic], who found bullet at
Parkland Hospital, Dallas, nor O. P. WRIGHT, Personnel Officer, Parkland
Hospital, who obtained bullet from TOMLINSON and gave to Special Service,
at Dallas 11/22/63, can identify bullet ? .? [Fig. 5 - Page 1, Page 2]

Whereas the FBI had claimed in CE #2011 that Tomlinson and Wright had told
Agent Odum on June 12, 1964 that CE #399 ?appears to be the same? bullet
they found on the day of the assassination, nowhere in this previously
classified memo, which was written before CE #2011, is there any
corroboration that either of the Parkland employees saw a resemblance. Nor
is FBI agent Odum?s name mentioned anywhere in the once-secret file,
whether in connection with #399, or with Tomlinson or with Wright.


Figure 5. Declassified FBI memo reporting neither Tomlinson nor Wright
could identify ?C1? [#399] as the bullet they handled on 11/22/63. [Page
1, Page 2]

A declassified record, however, offers some corroboration for what CE 2011
reported about Secret Service Agents Johnsen and Rowley. A memo from the
FBI?s Dallas field office dated 6/24/64 reported that, ?ON JUNE TWENTYFOUR
INSTANT RICHARD E. JOHNSEN, AND JAMES ROWLEY, CHIEF ? ADVISED SA ELMER LEE
TODD, WFO, THAT THEY WERE UNABLE TO INDENTIFY RIFLE BULLET C ONE (# 399,
which, before the Warren Commission had logged in as #399, was called ?C
ONE?), BY INSPECTION (capitals in original). [Fig. 6]

Convinced that we had overlooked some relevant files, we cast about for
additional corroboration of what was in CE # 2011. There should, for
example, have been some original ?302s ? ? the raw FBI field reports from
the Agent Odum?s interviews with Tomlinson and Wright on June 12, 1964.
There should also have been one from Agent Todd?s interviews with Secret
Service Agents Johnsen and Rowley on June 24, 1964. Perhaps somewhere in
those, we thought, we would find Agent Odum reporting that Wright had
detected a resemblance between the bullets. And perhaps we?d also find out
whether Tomlinson, Wright, Johnsen or Rowley had supplied the Bureau with
any additional descriptive details about the bullet.


Figure 6. Suppressed 1964 FBI report detailing that neither of the Secret
Service agents who handled ?#399? on 11/22/63 could later identify it.

In early 1998, we asked a research associate, Ms. Cathy Cunningham, to
scour the National Archives for any additional files that might shed light
on this story. She looked but found none. We contacted the JFK Review
Board?s T. Jeremy Gunn for help. [Fig. 7] On May 18, 1998, the Review
Board?s Eileen Sullivan, writing on Gunn?s behalf, answered, saying: ?[W]e
have attempted, unsuccessfully, to find any additional records that would
account for the problem you suggest.?[10] [Fig. 8] Undaunted, one of us
wrote the FBI directly, and was referred to the National Archives, and so
then wrote Mr. Steve Tilley at the National Archives. [Fig. 9]

On Mr. Tilley?s behalf, Mr. Stuart Culy, an archivist at the National
Archives, made a search. On July 16, 1999, Mr. Culy wrote that he searched
for the FBI records within the HSCA files as well as in the FBI records,
all without success. He was able to determine, however, that the serial
numbers on the FBI documents ran ?concurrently, with no gaps, which
indicated that no material is missing from these files.?[11] [Fig. 10] In
other words, the earliest and apparently the only FBI report said nothing
about either Tomlinson or Wright seeing a similarity between the bullet
found at the hospital and the bullet later in evidence, CE #399. Nor did
agent Bardwell Odum?s name show up in any of the files.

Figure 7. Letter to Assassinations Records Review Board requesting a
search for records that might support FBI?s claim that hospital witnesses
identified #399.


Figure 8. ARRB reports that it is unable to find records supporting FBI
claim Parkland Hospital witnesses identified #399.


Figure 9. Letter to National Archives requesting search for additional
files on C.E. #399.


Figure 10. Letter from National Archives disclosing no additional files
exist on C.E. #399.

[editor's note: Dr. Aguilar followed up in 2005 with the National
Archives, asking them in letters dated March 2 and March 7 to search for
any FBI "302" reports that would have been generated from CE399 being
shown to those who handled it. On March 17, 2005 David Mengel of NARA
wrote back reporting that additional searches had not uncovered any such
reports.]

Stymied, author Aguilar turned to his co-author. ?What does Odum have to
say about it?? Thompson asked.

?Odum? How the hell do I know? Is he still alive??

?I?ll find out,? he promised.

Less than an hour later, Thompson had located Mr. Bardwell Odum?s home
address and phone number. Aguilar phoned him on September 12, 2002. He was
still alive and well and living in a suburb of Dallas. The 82-year old was
alert and quick-witted on the phone and he regaled Aguilar with fond
memories of his service in the Bureau. Finally, the Kennedy case came up
and Odum agreed to help interpret some of the conflicts in the records.
Two weeks after mailing Odum the relevant files ? CE # 2011, the
three-page FBI memo dated July 7, 1964, and the ?FBI AIRTEL? memo dated
June 12, 1964, Aguilar called him back.

Mr. Odum told Aguilar, ?I didn?t show it [#399] to anybody at Parkland. I
didn?t have any bullet ? I don?t think I ever saw it even.? [Fig. 11]
Unwilling to leave it at that, both authors paid Mr. Odum a visit in his
Dallas home on November 21, 2002. The same alert, friendly man on the
phone greeted us warmly and led us to a comfortable family room. To ensure
no misunderstanding, we laid out before Mr. Odum all the relevant
documents and read aloud from them.

Again, Mr. Odum said that he had never had any bullet related to the
Kennedy assassination in his possession, whether during the FBI?s
investigation in 1964 or at any other time. Asked whether he might have
forgotten the episode, Mr. Odum remarked that he doubted he would have
ever forgotten investigating so important a piece of evidence. But even if
he had done the work, and later forgotten about it, he said he would
certainly have turned in a ?302? report covering something that important.
Odum?s sensible comment had the ring of truth. For not only was Odum?s
name absent from the FBI?s once secret files, it was also it difficult to
imagine a motive for him to besmirch the reputation of the agency he had
worked for and admired.


Figure 11. Recorded interview with FBI Agent Bardwell Odum, in which he
denies he ever had C.E. #399 in his possession.

Thus, the July 1964 FBI memo that became Commission Exhibit #2011 claims
that Tomlinson and Wright said they saw a resemblance between #399 and the
bullet they picked up on the day JFK died. However, the FBI agent who is
supposed to have gotten that admission, Bardwell Odum, and the Bureau?s
own once-secret records, don?t back up #2011. Those records say only that
neither Tomlinson nor Wright was able to identify the bullet in question,
a comment that leaves the impression they saw no resemblance. That
impression is strengthened by the fact that Wright told one of the authors
in 1966 the bullets were dissimilar. Thus, Thompson?s surprising discovery
about Wright, which might have been dismissed in favor of the earlier FBI
evidence in #2011, now finds at least some support in an even earlier,
suppressed FBI memo, and the living memory of a key, former FBI agent
provides further, indirect corroboration. Missing 302s?

But the newly declassified FBI memos from June 1964 lead to another
unexplained mystery. Neither are the 302 reports that would have been
written by the agents who investigated #399?s chain of possession in both
Dallas and Washington. The authors were tempted to wonder if the June
memos were but expedient fabrications, with absolutely no 302s whatsoever
backing them up.

But a declassified routing slip turned up by John Hunt seems to prove that
the FBI did in fact act on the Commission?s formal request, as outlined in
# 2011, to run down #399s chain of possession. The routing slip discloses
that the bullet was sent from Washington to Dallas on 6/2/64 and returned
to Washington on 6/22/64. Then on 6/24/64, it was checked out to FBI Agent
Todd. [Fig. 12] What transpired during these episodes? If the Bureau went
to these lengths, it seems quite likely that Bardwell Odum, or some other
agent in Dallas, would have submitted one or more 302s on what was found,
and so would Agent Elmer Todd in Washington. But there are none in the
files. The trail ends here with an unexplained, and perhaps important, gap
left in the record.


Figure 12. FBI routing slip. Note that #399 was sent from Washington to
Dallas and back again, and that FBI agent Todd checked out the bullet on
6/24/64, the day it was reported the Secret Service Agents told Todd they
could not identify #399. [See Fig. 5 (page 1, page 2) and Fig. 6.]
(Courtesy of John Hunt)

Besides this unexplained gap, another interesting question remains: If the
FBI did in fact adjust Tomlinson and Wright?s testimonies with a bogus
claim of bullet similarity, why didn?t it also adjust Johnsen and
Rowley?s? While it is unlikely a certain answer to this question will ever
be found, it is not unreasonable to suppose that the FBI authors of #2011
would have been more reluctant to embroider the official statements of the
head of the Secret Service in Washington than they would the comments of a
couple of hospital employees in Dallas. Summary

In a memo to the Warren Commission [C. E. #2011] concerning its
investigation of the chain of possession of C.E. #399, the FBI reported
that two Parkland Hospital eyewitnesses, Darrell Tomlinson and O. P.
Wright, said C.E. #399 resembled the bullet they discovered on the day JFK
died. But the FBI agent who is supposed to have interviewed both men and
the Bureau?s own suppressed records contradict the FBI?s public memo.
Agent Odum denied his role, and the FBI?s earliest, suppressed files say
only that neither Tomlinson nor Wright was able to identify the bullet in
question. This suppressed file implies the hospital witnesses saw no
resemblance, which is precisely what Wright told one of the authors in
1967.

What we are left with is the FBI having reported a solid chain of
possession for #399 to the Warren Commission. But the links in the FBI?s
chain appear to be anything but solid. Bardwell Odum, one of the key
links, says he was never in the chain at all and the FBI?s own, suppressed
records tend to back him up. Inexplicably, the chain also lacks other
important links: FBI 302s, reports from the agents in the field who, there
is ample reason to suppose, did actually trace #399 in Dallas and in
Washington. Suppressed FBI records and recent investigations thus suggest
that not only is the FBI?s file incomplete, but also that one of the
authors may have been right when he reported in 1967 that the bullet found
in Dallas did not look like a bullet that could have come from Oswald?s
rifle.

>>
>>
>> Chris
>
>

[Anthony Marsh]

Rolled out on the floor. He only assumed that "apparently" it had been

[Walt]

misstate the facts to modify the evidence to fit your pet theories. You're
referring to the Warren Report....right?

[Bud]

On Monday, April 28, 2014 1:27:14 PM UTC-4, mainframetech wrote:
> On Sunday, April 27, 2014 11:33:17 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, April 27, 2014 6:33:22 PM UTC-4, mainframetech wrote:
>
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> > > On Sunday, April 27, 2014 1:09:57 PM UTC-4, OHLeeRedux wrote:
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> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > There was no "wrong stretcher." That is utter nonsense.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Your comment is utter nonsense. You apparently have forgotten or never knew that the stretcher was tracked down by a researcher to be that of a small boy who had been admitted to Parkland named Ronnie Fuller.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > You apparently have forgotten or never knew that the person who found
>
> >
>
> > the bullet said he wasn`t sure which Tretcher he found the bullet on.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > "According to research done by Josiah Thompson, the bullet was found on a stretcher used by a young boy named Ronny Fuller!"
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > From: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/palamara.htm
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > As well, the bullet in custody was later shown to 4 people that had handled it when it was found by Tomlinson. Not one of them would identify the bullet, and one of them said what he was shown was the wrong shape. It was round nosed (like the MC ammunition), but the original was pointy nosed!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Perhaps you`ve forgotten or never knew that Tomlinson said the bullet in
>
> >
>
> > evidence looks like the bullet he found.
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> You may be right, but then it was Wright that said it.

The first person who handled said it looked one way and the second
person to handle it said it looked another. Do you suppose it was switched
between the two men`s possession?

> one of the two
>
> Parkland employees said it, and the other 2 who refused to identify the
>
> bullet were SS agents.

Did they mark it?

>
>
>
>
> Tomlinson at a later time said that he was sure and it WASN'T the
>
> Connally stretcher.

Once he admitted under oath that he wasn`t sure this avenue was shut
down.

> If you remember there was a bullet found on the
>
> Connally stretcher while he was in the operating room, and a nurse found
>
> it and brought it out.

I can I remember something that there is little reason to believe?

> They told her to hand it to a state cop, which she
>
> did, and that was the end of it, since it was never seen again.

Produce a witness who said they saw it at all.

>
>
> To see the drawing that Tomlinson made of the hallway and the stretchers
>
> and their positions, go here:
>
>
>
> http://jfkhistory.com/bell/bellarticle/BellArticle.html
>
>
>
> There was even a story of another bullet that was seen laying next to
>
> the head of JFK by a nurse Phyllis Hall, who said it was "pointed at its
>
> tip". That one was never seen again either:
>
>
>
> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/nurse-phyllis-hall-tells-efforts-2713685

Why do you guys bother with these "someone said" fantastic stories you
can`t take anywhere? I know, it`s part of the hobby, it`s the game that
matters, not necessarily going anywhere.

[Mike]

Ptolemy said the earth was at the center of the universe and the planets
and sun revolved around the earth in epicycles.

Ptolemy was wrong.

Josiah Thompson is wrong about CE399. Quoting Josiah Thompson on CE399
is like quoting Ptolemy on the struture of the universe.

[claviger]

On Monday, April 28, 2014 7:14:47 PM UTC-5, Anthony Marsh wrote:

So what you are saying is the Giant Conspiracy was so brilliant they had a
whole Carcano bullet test fired into some kind of medium (cotton, gel,
water) where they could retrieve a whole bullet just in case LHO or some
other sniper makes a through-and-through wound on the President, then it
can be dropped off at the hospital? How would they know which hospital
they would take him to?

The other scenario is the Giant Conspiracy was so damn stupid they used
the wrong throw-down bullet for the weapon they are trying to frame LHO
with!!!

Not only that, they put it in the Limousine where some dunderhead found it
and moved it to a stretcher without telling anybody, where it could
accidentally roll on the floor and be kicked around or even swept out with
the trash with no one ever knowing about it?

Who carried this throw-down bullet? With all eyes on the two vehicles at
the Hospital ER parking area it would be chancy to get close enough to
place the fake bullet.

[David Von Pein]

REPRISE (FOR TONY)---

[Anthony Marsh]

On 4/28/2014 10:39 PM, claviger wrote:
> On Monday, April 28, 2014 7:14:47 PM UTC-5, Anthony Marsh wrote:
>
> So what you are saying is the Giant Conspiracy was so brilliant they had a
> whole Carcano bullet test fired into some kind of medium (cotton, gel,
> water) where they could retrieve a whole bullet just in case LHO or some
> other sniper makes a through-and-through wound on the President, then it
> can be dropped off at the hospital? How would they know which hospital
> they would take him to?
>

They would need an intact bullet which could be matched to Oswald's
rifle in case the real bullets were too badly damaged to match up.

> The other scenario is the Giant Conspiracy was so damn stupid they used
> the wrong throw-down bullet for the weapon they are trying to frame LHO
> with!!!
>

Don't know that one. Is that your theory?

> Not only that, they put it in the Limousine where some dunderhead found it
> and moved it to a stretcher without telling anybody, where it could
> accidentally roll on the floor and be kicked around or even swept out with
> the trash with no one ever knowing about it?
>

That's a very silly theory you made up.

> Who carried this throw-down bullet? With all eyes on the two vehicles at
> the Hospital ER parking area it would be chancy to get close enough to
> place the fake bullet.
>
>

Not my theory. Don't ask me about theories you make up.

[Anthony Marsh]

Nonsense. Tink has been wrong about several things and I have told him
so. But he is correct that CE 399 could not have done all the damage.

[mainframetech]

What kind of foolishness is this? Can no one think for themselves?
The original bullet, which Wright said was pointy nosed and NOT round
nosed was found under a stretcher (gurney) in the hallway at Parkland
hospital. It was then passed along and became an item in custody of the
FBI (Frazier), who were notorious in this case for messing with reports
and evidence to support the WC wacky 'lone nut' theory.

LATER, when they passed the bullet over to be looked at and identified
by 4 men (Wright, Tomlinson, and 2 SS agents), they wouldn't identify it
as the original bullet they had handled. Wright pointed out that the
original had a 'pointy nose' on it, not a 'round nose' like the one shown
to him. During the time the bullet (CE399) was in FBI custody, the FBI
also did firing tests with the MC rifle attributed to Oswald. That
testing would produce any number of bullets that would test positive for
coming from that unique MC rifle. A perfect piece of evidence.

By comparing the CE399 bullet with a test bullet (CE572), it's easy to
see the similarity. They both have a slight bend and flattening in the
middle, and they both have lost a bit of material at the tail end. The
information from the witnesses can easily be interpreted to mean that the
bullet (CE399) was replaced while in FBI custody, whether Frazier (the
custodian) knew it or not.


There was no need to have throwdown bullets or know in advance that the
MC rifle had to provide the bullets that would be blamed for the kill.
Whatever rifle was used would be tested by the FBI who moved in and
grabbed all evidence and all interviews of witnesses, whether the cops did
it or not. The testing of a rifle produces test bullets that can then
replace the 'placeholder' bullet in evidence. The mistake in this case
was that the 'placeholder' bullet was a different shape from the MC rifle
bullet and one of the witnesses said so. He was quite sure of his memory
about the shape, and it suggests the bullet was replaced to make the MC
rifle the killing weapon, and Oswald the guilty 'lone nut' who used it.
Simple.

Chris

[mainframetech]

An interesting addition to the 'witness list'. Here's something said of
Nathan Pool:

"According to Pool, the bullet was pointed, and he added that it "didn't
look like it had hit anything and didn't look like it had been in
anything".

From: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/palamara.htm

So we have corroboration about the original bullet being "pointed".
More evidence that there was a switch of bullets while in the custody of
the FBI.

Tomlinson kept quiet about Pool being there, but I can't for the life
of me figure out why Pool would ask Tomlinson to keep his name out of his
story about finding the bullet. As well, with 2-3 SS agents being around
at one time or another, you'd think there would be an SS report somewhere
mentioning this episode, since finding evidence might be of interest in a
murder case. I don't remember Tomlinson mentioning the attendant agents
who might have verified which stretcher was which.

An drawing done by Tomlinson of what he explained about the stretchers
is here:

http://jfkhistory.com/bell/bellarticle/BellArticle.html

Chris

[mainframetech]

Interesting that if the bullet WAS on the floor as Tomlinson said, that
interview is missing a few words where it might have been said again by
Tomlinson. The testimony before the WC is more believable than this off
the cuff phone call with some missing words.

Chris

[Anthony Marsh]

The WC is full of "Someone said" and you swallow it whole.

[mainframetech]

Wrong because YOU said so? Nope, won't do. You're offering nothing to
back up your beliefs. Did YOU do any questioning of witnesses and looking
into this part of the case? If so, let us know what you can.

Chris

[Mike]

REPRISE for David Von Pein

The bullet was found on the floor by Nathan Pool who worked with
Tomilinson

[Walt]

On Monday, April 28, 2014 12:27:14 PM UTC-5, mainframetech wrote:
> On Sunday, April 27, 2014 11:33:17 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, April 27, 2014 6:33:22 PM UTC-4, mainframetech wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > On Sunday, April 27, 2014 1:09:57 PM UTC-4, OHLeeRedux wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > mainframetech
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > On Saturday, April 26, 2014 8:31:23 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > - show quoted text -
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Since the bullet was found on the WRONG stretcher, we must face the fact that someone put it there, and it would be interesting to know who, and where they got it. And since 4 men later wouldn't identify the bullet, we don't know that the bullet in custody (CE399) is still the original bullet placed on the stretcher.

That's right..... CE 399 shouldn't be allowed as evidence because there
is no unbroken chain of possession. Likewise any reports of bullets being
found without documentation by at least one other party should not be
taken seriously.

[Bud]

What do you base this on?

[Bud]

And silly.

>
>
> Chris

[Bud]

Didn`t need the WC at all to figure out this simple crime. A political
fanatic took his rifle to work and shot a political figure to death from
there. Don`t need ninjas, conspiracy hobbyists just like them.

[Mike]

He is wrong that CE399 was planted.

[David Von Pein]

"In 1977, the HSCA spoke to a man whom conspiracy theorists contend knows
the "truth" about how the bullet was discovered. Nathan Pool, an elevator
maintenance man, told the HSCA he had been instructed by his district
service manager on November 22 to go to Parkland Hospital "to make sure
there was no trouble with the elevator."

Upon arrival at about 1:15 p.m., Pool claimed he was taken to the
emergency-room elevator by a Secret Service agent, who introduced him to a
second agent, who then instructed Pool "to permit no riders to board the
elevator without prior clearance." The second agent reportedly remained
stationed outside the elevator on the emergency-room level.

Pool recognized Darrell C. Tomlinson, whom he knew, operating the
elevator. Pool said that there was only one stretcher outside the elevator
and that only one trip was made up in the elevator prior to the discovery
of the bullet. When the stretcher was moved, Pool heard an object fall,
bent over to pick it up, and discovered a bullet, which, based on his
familiarity with guns, he judged to be 6 millimeters in diameter, bronze,
long, pointed, and smooth. He told the HSCA that the bullet didn't look
like it had hit anything. A Secret Service agent was reportedly within ten
feet when Pool discovered the bullet.

Pool then gave the bullet to Tomlinson, asking him not to mention his name
to anyone. Pool said he didn't know whom Tomlinson gave the bullet to
because Tomlinson "went around a corner to deliver it," although earlier
in the interview Pool said Tomlinson gave it either to a Secret Service
agent or to Mr. O. P. Wright. (HSCA Record 180-10089-10189, Memorandum,
Belford Lawson to Robert K. Tanenbaum, regarding telephone interview of
Nathan Pool, January 12, 1977, pp.1-3)

Although critics have tried to make something out of this report, Pool's
account offers nothing substantially different from Tomlinson's. In both
cases, the bullet was discovered on or near a stretcher whose origin
remains a little vague. If anything, Pool's story is far less credible
than Tomlinson's.

First, Pool never explained why he waited fourteen years to come forward.
Also, although he told the HSCA that he was "personally taken back to the
elevator by . . . a Secret Service agent who introduced [me] to a second .
. . Secret Service agent," significantly, Pool's name doesn't appear in
any Secret Service report.

Moreover, Pool recalled only one trip being made in the elevator prior to
discovering the bullet and that trip involved taking a Secret Service
agent to the second or third floor. Yet Tomlinson testified that numerous
trips were made in the elevator, all involving hospital personnel (6 H
131-132).

Additionally, as indicated, Pool claimed he discovered the bullet ten feet
from a Secret Service agent, yet he says Tomlinson had to go "around the
corner" to find someone to give it to. Also, Pool claimed he picked the
bullet up off the floor and gave it to Tomlinson, who presumably gave it
to O. P. Wright. Yet, Wright reported that Tomlinson pointed out the
bullet as it lay on the stretcher, exactly where Tomlinson testified he
found it (CE 2011, 24 H 412).

The only hint that Pool might have even been there is that Tomlinson
inexplicably switched from "I" to "we" when telling his story to the
Warren Commission (6 H 131). Exactly what Tomlinson meant by "we," or
whether it referred to Pool, as critics contend, or O. P. Wright, or some
third party, or was simply speaking loosely, was never explored.

In a July 1966 interview with conspiracy theorist Raymond Marcus,
Tomlinson claimed that he picked the bullet up and put it in his pocket
and that about "fifteen to twenty minutes" later he gave it to O. P.
Wright, who "came by there" (HSCA Record 180-10088-10206, Transcript of
telephone interview of D. C. Tomlinson by Raymond Marcus, July 25, 1966,
pp.2-3).

Tomlinson also told CBS in 1967 that he picked the bullet up and put it in
his pocket (Transcript of CBS News Inquiry: The Warren Report, part II,
June 26, 1967, p.15, CBS Television Archives). However, Tomlinson's 1966
and 1967 statements contradict his 1964 sworn testimony before the Warren
Commission, and are at odds with the recollections of O. P. Wright, who
said that Tomlinson pointed the bullet out to him, and that he (Wright)
was the one who eventually picked up the bullet and took charge of it (CE
2011, 24 H 412; Transcript of CBS News Inquiry: The Warren Report, part
IV, June 28, 1967, p.7, CBS Television Archives)." -- Vincent Bugliosi;
Pages 426-427 of "Reclaiming History" (Endnotes)(Footnote)

[Anthony Marsh]

On 4/29/2014 8:36 PM, Walt wrote:
> On Monday, April 28, 2014 12:27:14 PM UTC-5, mainframetech wrote:
>> On Sunday, April 27, 2014 11:33:17 PM UTC-4, Bud wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, April 27, 2014 6:33:22 PM UTC-4, mainframetech wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>>>> On Sunday, April 27, 2014 1:09:57 PM UTC-4, OHLeeRedux wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>> mainframetech
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>> On Saturday, April 26, 2014 8:31:23 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>> - show quoted text -
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>> Since the bullet was found on the WRONG stretcher, we must face the fact that someone put it there, and it would be interesting to know who, and where they got it. And since 4 men later wouldn't identify the bullet, we don't know that the bullet in custody (CE399) is still the original bullet placed on the stretcher.
>
> That's right..... CE 399 shouldn't be allowed as evidence because there
> is no unbroken chain of possession. Likewise any reports of bullets being
> found without documentation by at least one other party should not be
> taken seriously.
>

Surprise, surprise. You think ALL the evidence is fake.
Then don't discuss it at all, ever.

[Donald Roberdeau]

On Monday, April 28, 2014 8:14:47 PM UTC-4, Anthony Marsh wrote:

> On 4/27/2014 11:33 PM, Bud wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, April 27, 2014 6:33:22 PM UTC-4, mainframetech wrote:
>
> >> On Sunday, April 27, 2014 1:09:57 PM UTC-4, OHLeeRedux wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>> mainframetech
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>> On Saturday, April 26, 2014 8:31:23 PM UTC-4, David Von Pein wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>> - show quoted text -
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>> Since the bullet was found on the WRONG stretcher, we must face the fact that someone put it there, and it would be interesting to know who, and where they got it. And since 4 men later wouldn't identify the bullet, we don't know that the bullet in custody (CE399) is still the original bullet placed on the stretcher.
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>

> >>> Chris
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>> There was no "wrong stretcher." That is utter nonsense.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Your comment is utter nonsense. You apparently have forgotten or never knew that the stretcher was tracked down by a researcher to be that of a small boy who had been admitted to Parkland named Ronnie Fuller.
>
> >
>
> > You apparently have forgotten or never knew that the person who found
>
> > the bullet said he wasn`t sure which Tretcher he found the bullet on.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> "According to research done by Josiah Thompson, the bullet was found on a stretcher used by a young boy named Ronny Fuller!"
>
> >>
>
> >> From: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/palamara.htm
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> As well, the bullet in custody was later shown to 4 people that had handled it when it was found by Tomlinson. Not one of them would identify the bullet, and one of them said what he was shown was the wrong shape. It was round nosed (like the MC ammunition), but the original was pointy nosed!
>
> >
>
> > Perhaps you`ve forgotten or never knew that Tomlinson said the bullet in
>
> > evidence looks like the bullet he found.
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>

Excellent.

Additionally....

Parkland administrator O. P. Wright was finally able to give the bullet to
Secret Service Agent Richard E. Johnsen about 5 minutes before the Secret
Service, with their weapons unholstered, displayed, and/or level-aimed at
medical personnel, forcibly took over control of President Kennedy's body
and removed it out of the hospital. (taking the body away from the control
of the very experienced hands of the Dallas County Coroner, Dr. Earl F.
Rose)

Agent Johnsen stated that he carried the bullet from Dallas to the White
House where he gave a bullet to Secret Service Chief James J. Rowley.
(yet, neither Johnsen nor Rowley ever etched their chain-of-possession
initials, anywhere, on the bullet)

Rowley then gave a bullet to F.B.I. Special Agent Elmer Lee Todd so that
Todd would carry it directly to F.B.I. Special Agent Robert Frazier
located in an F.B.I. laboratory.

Importantly, when Secret Service Chief Rowley turned a bullet over to
F.B.I. Special Agent Todd, they each signed a time-stamped receipt for
"their" bullet.

The exact time of this bullet transfer from Rowley to Todd is documented
to have been at 8:50 PM EST on 11-22-63....

.... but ....

. . . . F.B.I. Special Agent Robert Frazier documented at the F.B.I. lab
he had ALREADY received a bullet at 7:30 PM EST, precisely 80 minutes
BEFORE Rowley and Todd at the White House had ever signed "their" bullet
transfer receipt.


Best Regards in Research,

Don


Donald Roberdeau
United States Navy
U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, plank walker
Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges Clearly

For your key considerations + independent determinations....

Homepage: President KENNEDY "Men of Courage" speech, + Assassination Evidence, Witnesses, Photographers, Suspects, + Outstanding Researchers Discoveries + Key Considerations.... http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2009/08/1-men-of-courage-jfk-assassination_09.html

The Dealey Plaza Map Detailing 11-22-63 Victims precise locations, Evidence, Witnesses, Photographers, Suspected bullet trajectories, Important information & Key Considerations, in One Convenient Resource (updated map + new information).... http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/3966/dppluschartsupdated1111.gif

Visual Report: The First Bullet Impact Into President Kennedy: While JFK was Still Hidden Under the "magic-limbed-ricochet-tree".... http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/2446/206cropjfk1102308ms8.gif

Visual Report: Reality versus C.A.D. : the Real World, versus, Garbage-in, Garbage-out.... http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5066/jsf.gif

Discovery: "Very Close JFK Assassination Witness ROSEMARY WILLIS;
Zapruder Film Documented 2nd Head Snap: West, Ultrafast, and
Directly Towards the Grassy Knoll".... http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2011/01/discovery-close-jfk-assassination.html


T ogether
E veryone
A chieves
M ore

For the United States:

http://www.nationalterroralert.com/advisory7regional.gif

http://www.dhs.gov

[Mike]

On 4/30/2014 12:42 AM, David Von Pein wrote:
> "In 1977, the HSCA spoke to a man whom conspiracy theorists contend knows
> the "truth" about how the bullet was discovered. Nathan Pool,

First, you need to specify who you are quoting in your post about Pool.


Second...

Pool stated that he and Tomlinson were working together in the elevator.



Tomlinson never mentions Pool by name but Tomlinsons Warren Commission
testimony corroborates Pools statement. Pool stated that he and
Tomlinson were working together in the elevator.

In several places in Tomlinson's WC testimony he refers to "we".

Here is one instance where Tomlinson uses the word "we" in his WC
testimony. Tomlinson says "WE made one or two calls up before I
straightened out the stretcher up against the wall."

[QUOTE]
Mr. Tomlinson: Well, really, I can't be positive, just to be perfectly
honest about it, I can't be positive, because I really didn't pay that
much attention to it. The stretcher was on the elevator and I pushed it
off of there and I believe we made one or two calls up before I
straightened out the stretcher up against the wall.
[END QUOTE]

Link To Pools Statement to HSCA
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/P%20Disk/Pool%20Nathan/Item%2003.pdf


http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19537&p=260857

[Anthony Marsh]

Maybe, maybe not. We'll never know because of the cover-up.

[Anthony Marsh]

WC tests.

[claviger]

On Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:32:24 AM UTC-5, Donald Roberdeau wrote:

So what does all this mean to you? How does this fit into the
pre-planning of the ambush on the motorcade?

If the sniper team was using different ammunition this implies they
somehow anticipated a through-and-through wound and had a pre-fired
Carcano bullet ready to go so it could replace the pointed nose bullet at
the hospital, or is it they realized the pointed bullet showed up first at
the ER and then had someone go fire a Carcano into a water barrel and make
the switch in Washington?

What about witnesses who saw the bullet in ER and described it as a round
nosed bullet or confirmed the rounded shape bullet was the one they saw at
the hospital?

It would seem more likely the hit team would use the same type ammo as the
intended patsy so they wouldn't need to go through all this trouble.
Wouldn't that be the easier way to frame LHO? They could use a sabot or a
Carcano rifle engineered for maximum performance.

[David Von Pein]

MIKE SAID:

First, you need to specify who you are quoting in your post about Pool.

DAVID V.P. SAYS:

I did.

[Anthony Marsh]

On 4/30/2014 6:56 PM, claviger wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:32:24 AM UTC-5, Donald Roberdeau wrote:
>
> So what does all this mean to you? How does this fit into the
> pre-planning of the ambush on the motorcade?
>
> If the sniper team was using different ammunition this implies they
> somehow anticipated a through-and-through wound and had a pre-fired
> Carcano bullet ready to go so it could replace the pointed nose bullet at
> the hospital, or is it they realized the pointed bullet showed up first at
> the ER and then had someone go fire a Carcano into a water barrel and make
> the switch in Washington?
>

Or maybe they intentionally missed with one shot so they could plant a
bullet. Remember the first official conclusion was three shots, three
hits, no misses.

[Mike]

You need to state it clearly.

[David Von Pein]

I did. You just didn't read it (for some reason).

[mainframetech]

Lordee! All the unnecessary complications! First, there wouldn't have
been a team. You don't need a spotter when you won't have time for such
niceties.

Second, there's no need to make a bullet available to use to make up
evidence when you control the evidence, as was the case with Frazier of
the FBI. He jumped in and took over the evidence immediately, and from
there on we have the failures of custody of the CE399 bullet and the
replacement of it during FBI custody. Since no matter what rifle actually
accomplished the kill shot, a bullet would be provided from the field that
would later be replaced by an Oswald MC bullet, which would 'prove' that
Oswald's rifle did the job.

Remember that the bullet in custody (CE399) was taken around to be
identified by 4 men who had handled it earlier. Not one of them would
identify it, and one of them said that the bullet shown was NOT the right
shape as the original bullet. Like Nathan Pool, Wright said the bullet
shown was round nosed, not 'pointy nosed' like the original bullet. A
sign that the CE399 was replaced while in custody.

Chris

[Mike]

You still have not stated who you were quoting.

Are you afraid to admit who you were quoting?

[Bud]

Are you incapable of reading it?

[David Von Pein]

The person I was quoting is identified, plain as day, in the post
containing the quote.

[Mike]

On 5/3/2014 11:23 AM, David Von Pein wrote:
> The person I was quoting is identified, plain as day, in the post
> containing the quote.
>

I am reposting you post. It is absolutely NOT CLEAR who you are quoting.
It is also not clear where the quote starts and where the quote ends. It
is also not clear how many quotes you are quoting.

"In 1977, the HSCA spoke to a man whom conspiracy theorists contend knows

[David Von Pein]

Yes, it is clear. It's not my fault you can't figure out something so
incredibly easy.

[FELIX LEITER]

Marsh Mellow Head wrote:"Or maybe they intentionally missed with one shot so they could plant a bullet. Remember the first official conclusion was three shots, three hits, no misses."
LOLOL!LOL! They missed? Who and how many? Did Oswald have a double?
Marsh you have been reading Ralph Cinque's blog again.

[Mike]

On 5/3/2014 8:22 PM, David Von Pein wrote:
> Yes, it is clear. It's not my fault you can't figure out something so
> incredibly easy.
>

I did not say I could not figure it out.

I said it is not clear.

[Anthony Marsh]

Oh please! I've never read Cinque's blog. I have a weak stomach.

[FELIX LEITER]

Marsh, you must have read Cinque's blog once. You are on the same team.

[Anthony Marsh]

Pay attention. I said NO. I have never been on the same team. I don't
agree with anything he says and attack him as much as I can get away
with on a censored newsgroup.

[FELIX LEITER]

Marsh, pay attention. How do you know you are not on Cinque's team? You
must have read his blog once. Pay attention Marsh.

[Anthony Marsh]

LAST WARNING. Stop calling me a liar. I have never read his blog.

[FELIX LEITER]

LAST WARNING? Are you going to cry?