Re: [RC] Why people don't try the longer distances (was: Some of my id eas)

[ride...@juno.com]

>>>It is, indeed, a big step to do so. But it wouldn't be as big of a step if
people were not punished for trying to make it and not quite making it.


This hits pretty close to home for me right now. A couple of weeks ago at Biltmore I entered my horse JA Hallys Eclipse (7) in the 100. He made it 87 miles. I *could* have entered the 75 I guess and had a completion. To make it worse he has 1930 career miles...so 75 would have made him hit his 2000 mile mark.

The Competition Committee is having discussions about possible ways to encourage new members, etc. right now and a board member stated that they were in favor of combining LD/endurance miles. As justification he used the example of a sweet woman with many miles in both who just wanted our HORSES to get the credit for what they'd done. (As if they give a rip). I thought it over and though, "I believe 7 had a much better reason to be upset. After all, 50 milers and 75 milers got credit and he did 87 and got none! If he'd had a pillow he probably would have cried into it all night. >g<

As a person who has come up with programs that I *thought* would encourage people to move up but in ways had unintended consequences, I've decided that I don't care how many incentives are given for me NOT to do the hard ride, I will ignore them. I helped come up with SERA's "10 consecutive completions" award. Then my horse had 9 and I had to make the decision whether to enter the 50 or the 100 at the next ride. Screw the disincentive, I entered the 100. I've decided I'd rather get pulled at 87 than get credit for 50 that I pretty much knew I could finish. The whole point of this sport is to test yourself and enjoy that feeling of accomplishment when you make it. If you get it where I get credit for the extra miles, I'll take them. If you don't, I'd still rather be the person who tried.

Angie McGhee
____________________________________________________________
Political system upset?
Democrats BIG advantage in America about to completely vanish
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/519e40fc4aa6b40fb2416st02vuc

[endurancehorsemt]

Kat said "LIFETIME MILEAGE: Horses and riders will accumulate lifetime
mileage for any
miles that they have completed "fit to continue" even if they did not complete
the whole ride that was entered..eg. if they enter the 100 miler and don't
finish the entire course (for whatever reason), they will get the miles up to
the last vet check where they were deemed fit to continue. These will be
lifetime mileage credit only and "completion only" miles and will not count
towards any year end awards. The purpose of this is to encourage people who are
risk averse (which is just about everybody) to "try" the longer distances
without having to risk that they or their horses will get no credit at all for
their efforts."

The thing I'm not sure I like about this is I think people SHOULD be a
little "risk averse" when it comes to horse welfare. It might
encourage people to push their horses longer distances than they
should be pushing them. Say I'm pretty confident my horse can complete
the 50 at an upcoming event because she's done it before and I've been
conditioning her for a 50. Under the current rules, I'd just enter the
50. Why enter the 75 and risk a pull and get no credit at all? (Sure,
it is discouraging me from entering the longer distance, but for good
reason!) Under Kat's proposal I might be tempted to enter the 75 even
though my horse is really probably only fit for a 50. So I enter the
75, get to the 50 mile point and she's getting tired, but I still want
to see if I can make it 75. So I continue on, and drag her butt across
the 75, where we fail the vet check. But still get mileage credit for
the 50. Sure I completed 50 miles but I probably should have stopped
right there.

I see where this proposal is in the best interest of the rider/record,
but not the horse. It might successfully achieve what it's intended to
do, get people to go longer distances - at an event. I think part of
the reason people are not trying the longer distances, is either they
don't have the inclination to spend more time conditioning, or they
don't have the time. If you're not going to do more conditioning at
home, you probably shouldn't be doing the longer distances at a ride.
So why encourage it? Just to get more people signed up for longer
rides?

I personally don't see a non-completion showing up on my record as a
"punishment". I don't like to see it, but it's not a punishment. It
means I have more to learn and more conditioning to do for the
distance I want to do. (And I'm saying this from a perspective of
someone who has only completed 3 out of 6 rides). But whether you see
it as a punishment or not, I think it is a deterrent from pushing your
horse too far, because I think everyone would prefer a record full of
completions over non-completions. My non-completes were due to both
tack issues and my horse not being sufficiently conditioned. My
response to my failures was to address the tack issues and ramp up my
conditioning plan. I think we are in for a good year this year, but
we'll see. I believe this is the correct response to my dislike of
failures on my record. And dislike of seeing my horse finish so tired
(or with a sore back due to saddle).

I think that's much better than, "let me just see how far I can drag
my horse before she fails the vet check, and get credit for everything
before that". I realize not everyone would behave that way under Kat's
proposal, but there's always someone that's going to use the rules in
the worst way possible. Let's keep protecting our horses by, yes,
"punishing" (Kat's word, not mine) them (me) by not giving credit for
miles or a completion.

That said, I would love to see more 35 mile LDs. I think they are a
great way to determine whether your horse is ready for a 50. And a
great way to encourage more people trying 50's. I believe under
current rules you could already hold a ride with both a 25 AND a 35
(and a 50 of course) if you wanted to. But the rules should encourage
people to be somewhat confident their horse can do whatever distance
it is, BEFORE they attempt it. Yeah, it requires a little more
diligence in conditioning, and perhaps a little more patience before
moving up. I think that is a good thing, even if it means people don't
attempt "moving up" as quickly.

- Karen in MT.

> --
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to ride...@endurance.net
>
> To post to this group, send email to ride...@endurance.net
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to: ridecamp+u...@endurance.net
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/a/endurance.net/group/ridecamp?hl=en
>
>
>



--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
AERC # M39603
www.allthingsendurance.com

[Dawn Carrie]

I totally, 100% agree with Angie.  As the saying goes, "it is better to have tried and failed than to have failed to try."  Where is the challenge in repeatedly doing something that you know you can succeed at?  Endurance offers so many different ways to challenge oneself.  Enter a longer distance.  Enter more than one day in a row.  Enter a harder ride than one usually rides.  So just do it.  :)

 

Dawn Carrie, Texas 

[Jody Rogers-Buttram]

I personaly think we should have instead of an "intro ride" or "trail division" that we call it the "Special division". The handicapped divison,  That means, I am too old to ride an LD ride, or I am too new to ride an LD ride, or I am working a full time job and can't condition for an LD ride.  Or my horse is too underridden, although I ride him 20 miles/week to do an fun  ride.  OR I don't make enough money for an LD ride. I had surgery and I don't think I can ride more than 15 miles until another 2 months ride.   You know what.  I have been POOR, still am really compared to most,  I had a baby, and until Joni was 5 yrs. old I could condition more than 6 miles at a time. I drove an freaking ANCIENT truck, that has been laughed at more than once.  I bought horses that cost, LOVE THIS: $40, $150 (on two), and $400 horses. Some were well trained, some weren't.  Then I have raised others to ride.....but have NEVER paid more for a horse than $1500.   What I am saying is, You people really don't have an excuse.  GET up and just DO IT.  I don't care what you ride, but and LD ride is NOT out of your reach.  And if a horse should be given credit for how many miles it carries you....total laugh..... Joni and I have ridden about 6 horses from Dec. 1, over 1500 miles.  It is about attitude....not excuses.  I promise, most of you make way more money that I do.  Just do IT !!!!!!  It is NOT that hard. --- On Thu, 5/23/13, Dawn Carrie <rdca...@gmail.com> wrote:

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RidecampRedistributed" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ridecampredistri...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

[David Lewis]

Just a thought: I think you'd still have the "pull", but if you did get credit for the milage, that wouldn't negate the negative impact of the pull. Therefore, if I wanted to enter a 100 mile ride, but my horse was only conditioned for a 50, I still wouldn't enter in the 100 unless I thought I could do it. I might get credit for the milage, but the pull would show on my record. So knowing that I could complete the 100 would still be important.

-- David

Redmond, WA

[endurancehorsemt]

David - 

I think your response was to my post. I suppose you are right that the mileage credit might not (completely) negate the negative impact of the pull. So you'd still have some disincentive to ride more than you should, true. But to present an extreme example, under Kat's proposal, you could lame your horse at every ride and still show the highest number of miles in the nation. That just doesn't sit well with me. I realize this is an unlikely extreme example but could see some issues with it with less extreme examples. I assume a fully successful ride (placement) would also be required to qualify for national mileage champion or whatever awards AERC offers, but still.... 

And I just don't think the proposal addresses the heart of the matter. Maybe we should take a survey, but IF the main reason people aren't doing higher mileage rides is that they are not training for the higher mileage rides (because they don't have the time or don't have the inclination), for those people, changing the rules isn't going to change anything. 

If I'm riding 50 miles a week to train for a 50 miler, I'm going to sign up for the 50 and feel pretty confident about it. If I'm riding 10 miles a week and I don't or can't ride more than that, I'm not going to sign up for a 50 and am going to feel pretty sure I couldn't do it (even if my horse could). Should such a person be encouraged to sign up for a 50 and see how far they can make it? 

I would love more mileage options at more rides (ie, the 35) but I just think you should have to declare it before you begin the ride. I'm not completely opposed to it, just have some reservations about it. 

To me it's more about encouraging people to TRAIN FOR longer rides. Not just to show up at a longer ride and DO it. That's why I'd love to see more rides with 35s.  A newbie can train for a 25, do it, realize it's not so bad, be encouraged to train for a 35, do it, realize that's not so bad, and in turn would be encouraged to train for and ride a 50. 

Note: My perspective might be a little skewed because I ride an older thoroughbred who I think needs more conditioning than your average Arab in order to complete the longer distances. So for me the challenge is not any rules, but getting in those conditioning miles. Maybe this isn't true of the general pool of riders.

Would love to see a one-question survey: If you don't ride 50's (or longer), what is the reason? 

- Karen in MT

[karen standefer]

That's the whole point of the sport for you.  But, some of us have different "whole points"  :-)

[David Lewis]

That's a good point Karen, and would be reason enough not to give credit for miles unless you got the completion. You should be able to "complete" a ride you enter, and if you get pulled, perhaps there is good reason to NOT give the credit, for the sake of the horse. In thinking about this, I can agree to change my position because I don't think that giving credit for milage completed "fit to continue" would either gain or lose any members.

For me, I tried higher milage with a horse who I thought could handle it, she couldn't. And if others had the same problem, they might be discouraged to try moving up in milage even if they got the horse more fit or a new horse. But would changing the rules for accomplishment really help people move up in distance? I'm not sure I could answer that.

The primary purpose that I'd see, if any changes were to be made (i.e. based on Kat's proposal) would be for 2 reason:

1. Safety of the horse.

2. Bring in more people into the sport of endurance.

There's some really good info here and I'm thinking we'll apply it to a ride I'd like to put on at Mt. Spokane (Washington) in the future. To offer the distance option of LD, 35, 50 or 60 might be worthwhile to help get riders a small jump up to feel they can move up without making the huge leap between an LD and a 50.

-- David

Redmond, WA

--

[Dawn Carrie]

One thing I found interesting about small increases in mileage.  When I managed a ride a few years ago, I offered intro/30/55/75.  I offered the 30/55 rather than the standard 25/50 for a couple of reasons.  First, to give riders a little something different, and also to give them a few extra miles/points (not many, I realize, but a few) for those going after such things.  You know what happened?  A number of LDers complained about how their horses had to be out there on the trail for those 5 whole extra miles.  And some 50 milers complained about the same thing with respect to having to go an extra 5 whole miles!!!  It just goes to show how "stuck in a rut" people are, and how much they dislike change.

 

I don't know what the answer is to getting people to move up.  Some are diehard LDers and will never move up.  But that's ok.  They are out on their horses having fun and supporting AERC.  But for the ones who do aspire to move up, a multi-pronged approach is likely needed, since different folks have different reasons for hesitating.  Some, I know, don't realize just how little extra conditioning it actually takes for an LD horse to do a slow 50 (not talking a 12 hour 50, but maybe a ride time of 8+ hours or so).  Others would probably gain confidence from having some 35 mile LDs to bridge the gap, as others have mentioned.  Some would like to have someone to ride with on their first 50, to help with pacing and as a confidence-builder.  I'm thinking about resurrecting my ride, and will likely poll the LD riders to see if some of them would be interested in a 35 miler (in addition to a 25).

 

Dawn Carrie

[Sandra Adams]

a very good email, Karen and so I would not clutter this up by quoting the whole thing, I would highlight this portion. We still have a handful of elevator rides, and to me, these offer the opportunity to do just what was suggested. Not every ride lends itself to being suitable for this, and so trying to crow bar RMs into offering anything more complex could be a problem in itself. Aside from that, I agree with Karen - that "punishment" is perhaps not the best word to use, since that assumes someone did something wrong. The scenario Karen painted to ME would be the "something wrong" and if one were then rewarded by accruing points even after riding the snot out of the horse, then the "punishment' for everyone else is that they - who are prudent and caring and sensible in both their prep and their ride - will NOT garner points after riding their horses into the dust. It DOES require more diligence, time and knowledge. HELLO! How many times do we see people who probably don't belong on a horse in public at all yet, let alone in a competition? I don't really WANT to encourage them to ride like they stole it. I wouldn't allow any youth rider with me to ride as far and fast as possible, then when they get pulled get credit for the first 37 miles before their horse crashed. We cannot know for certain if our horse is ready for a distance, and of course, with the best of prep, things can go wrong - but in the interests of our silent partners, we have a responsibility not to encourage ANYTHING but the most prudent riding.  I really like controlled starts, too!:)

(ducking)

On May 23, 2013, at 9:54 AM, endurancehorsemt <enduranc...@gmail.com> wrote:

I believe under
current rules you could already hold a ride with both a 25 AND a 35
(and a 50 of course) if you wanted to. But the rules should encourage
people to be somewhat confident their horse can do whatever distance
it is, BEFORE they attempt it. Yeah, it requires a little more
diligence in conditioning, and perhaps a little more patience before
moving up. I think that is a good thing, even if it means people don't
attempt "moving up" as quickly.

Sandy Adams

Deep Sands Arabians

www.garyadamsbooks.com

Home of Salazar SF

"The Gentleman Stallion"

[Sandra Adams]

many rides DO offer Intro or Fun rides. To require it would be counter productive I think. It is hard right now both finding volunteers for a lot of rides, and ridership is down as well. I LOVE the intro rides, perfect for a new rider or horse - or an old fart, as my old Harlot was when Lynne offered the "Old Timers Ride". That was I think 18-20 years ago. Didn't seem like we had so many yayhoos and uneducated riders back then but maybe I am just getting old. I understand fully the injury issue, having been sidelined three times now by severe illness or injury. I so love that I can come back to LDs and se what my screwed together ankle will take, while dealing with two torn and healing labrums - and let's not forget the sciatica:). I LOVE that I can still go out and ride 25 miles and 30 miles and feel great when I am finished. I agree - LD is not out of the reach of anyone who is qualified to be on a horse at all. Money, distance, etc all factor in, but to me, it is worth that 6 hours drive to ride 25 or 35 because as the years go by, I feel fortunate to do THAT! Of course, this doesn't speak to the cost of diesel these days

[Sandra Adams]

egad then they need to take up knitting or some more serene pursuit. 

On May 23, 2013, at 12:22 PM, Dawn Carrie <rdca...@gmail.com> wrote:

A number of LDers complained about how their horses had to be out there on the trail for those 5 whole extra miles.  And some 50 milers complained about the same thing with respect to having to go an extra 5 whole miles!!!  It just goes to show how "stuck in a rut" people are, and how much they dislike change.

[endurancehorsemt]

Yeah!! Wish I could come to your ride, Dawn!!
- Karen in MT

[Diane Trefethen]

On 5/23/2013 11:36 AM, endurancehorsemt wrote:
> But to present an extreme example, under Kat's proposal, you could lame
> your horse at every ride and still show the highest number of miles in the
> nation.

You didn't read Kat's proposal carefully enough. With respect to miles credited
for RIDES not completed, Kat said, "These will be lifetime mileage credit only

and "completion only" miles and will not count towards any year end awards."

If the miles don't count toward year end awards, they won't be "tracked" by AERC
as if they were nor will they be reported in the EN. The only people who will
know how many miles you've racked up this year for non-completions will be you
and anyone who goes to the trouble of looking up your record. You certainly
won't get any accolades, notice or special credit for having the "highest number
of miles in the nation" as a result of umpteen billion lameness pulls.

[ride...@juno.com]

>>>>>Just a thought: I think you'd still have the "pull", but if you did get credit for the milage, that wouldn't negate the negative impact of the pull. Therefore, if I wanted to >>>>>enter a 100 mile ride, but my horse was only conditioned for a 50, I still wouldn't enter in the 100 unless I thought I could do it. I might get credit for the milage, but >>>>>the pull would show on my record. So knowing that I could complete the 100 would still be important.

 

David, you never KNOW you can finish the 100. You also don't know if you've conditioned for it until you try. I'd also say you don't know if you have a 100 mile horse until he does one. Some horses who may seem mediocre at the 50 shine at 100. What I believe I see is people who don't have the self confidence to take that chance. Sometimes I feel that we make it out to be such a big deal that people think they need a degree in Chemistry and to work their way up through the distances incrementally a season at a time, while I believe that if they have any intention of doing 100's LD simply teaches them they don't need to eat or drink because it will be over soon (that goes double for "fun rides"). Two years of conservative 50's and if all is going well try out a 100 and find out what you've got. I don't train any differently for a 100 than for a fifty. If anything, I train less between rides. The 50's are training rides for the 100.

 

 

Angie

 

____________________________________________________________
Political system upset?
Democrats BIG advantage in America about to completely vanish

stansberryresearch.com

[endurancehorsemt]

Diane,

I didn't say you'd get a mileage award, just said you'd have the
highest number of miles in the nation. I think I even said later I
didn't think it would "go towards mileage champion... but still..."

- Karen

> --
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to
> ride...@endurance.net
>
> To post to this group, send email to ride...@endurance.net
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to:
> ridecamp+u...@endurance.net
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/a/endurance.net/group/ridecamp?hl=en
>
>
>



--

[David Lewis]

Right, which is why I said I wouldn't enter a horse in a 100 unless I thought he stood a chance of completing it.

BTW, for trying to encourage riders to move up, ride managers could just offer more elevator rides, right? It's not like you're going to jump from a 50 to a 100, but you might from a 50 to 75, or 75 to 100, for example. In looking over the AERC rules, I don't even see any restrictions on doing an elevator ride from an LD to a 50 (although that may be silly).

-- David

Redmond, WA

--

[David Lewis]

As much as I like the idea, that'd be a points calculation problem. "Well, this horse has x competition miles, but only x miles are 'valid' toward awards", unless I'm reading your statement incorrectly?

-- David

Redmond, WA

[ride...@juno.com]

 

 

>>>>>If I'm riding 50 miles a week to train for a 50 miler, I'm going to sign up for the 50 and feel pretty confident about it. If I'm riding 10 miles a week and I don't or can't ride more than that, I'm not going to sign up for a 50 and am going to feel pretty sure I couldn't do it (even if my horse could). Should such a person be encouraged to sign up for a 50 and see how far they can make it?�

 

Where in the world do you get your numbers? Do you figure 100 milers ride 100 miles per week?I can't think of a time I've planned to train 50 miles in a week, for a 50 or a 100. Even when I'm building a horse up for competition I'd say I do *well* to do 25 miles in a week. Back when I first got started in the sport I based my training on some stuff I read and saw on videos and lamed a bunch of horses up. I had to learn not to OVER train. Sometimes it requires restraint. I'm not just muddling through either, and have won my share of high vet score awards in the last few years. We've had the Georgia Best Condition horse twice (two different horses), 2 time SERA's Consistent Condition Award winner for highest average vet score and several BC's on 50's and one at 100. I can show you a jpg of our training miles though at this point in these horse's careers we hardly even get on them between competitions (you underestimate the importance of rest too). I really do think you guys overestimate training miles required and underestimate how important it is to learn to ride in a way that is easiest on both your body and your horse's.

 

Angie McGhee

____________________________________________________________
Fast, Secure, NetZero 4G Mobile Broadband. Try it.

[ride...@juno.com]

>>>BTW, for trying to encourage riders to move up, ride managers could just offer more elevator rides, right? It's not like you're going to jump from a 50 to a 100, 

 

That's exactly what most of us did. I know it's hard to imagine when you haven't done it. I have a hard time imagining it myself and I've done it quite a few times. I NEVER feel like I could ride another 50 miles after a 50, however, I have never felt "finished" at the 50 mile mark of a 100. Your mind is just in that 100 mile mode and 50 seems like 1/2 a ride. It must be contagious, because I've never had my horse act as if it was over either.  I would be afraid the "miracle would not occur" if I entered an elevator. If I'm going to star a 100, I need to mentally commit. Elevators are for people who want to steal 2nd without taking their toe off first base. :-)  All I can tell you is when you are in competition "A miracle occurs". :-)

 

Angie McGhee

____________________________________________________________
1 Weird spice that FIGHTS diabetes
Can this unusual "super spice" control your blood sugar and fight diabetes&#63
diabetesreversed.com

[David Lewis]

Why is there a need to "put down" LD riders? "You're not *really* doing an endurance ride, oh low-ling"

If they feel like 25 miles is an endurance ride, maybe it is to them. It's a challenge enough for whatever reason. It's a sport in it's own. It's a shorter distance endurance ride. That's what it's classified as. There's nothing wrong with that and it doesn't take away from the glory of anyone completing a longer distance.

-- David

On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 2:38 PM, <okw...@prodigy.net> wrote:

 No I'm not a top rider or competitor, and have done a considerable number of LD rides on young horses, some broke to ride and some not. As Truman noted above, a 25 and 50 or 100 are not the same event, and do not need to be recognized as such. If you really think 25 miles on horseback is a real "Endurance" event you are out of touch(60-80 year old people do that distance (on their own two feet) consistently in less than 6 hours). It's just a good way to introduce new horses and riders to the  experience(and for ride managers to make ends meet). Grab a handful of mane and enjoy the day.

[Carla Richardson]

I do not think AERC needs any of these proposed changes.  The structure we have now seems to work well, to me.

Angie, there are no added points if a person rides one horse in all the days of a pioneer ride.  Just thought I would clarify that.  Most people actually do not ride one horse, more are riding two or more horses. 

I am opposed to combining miles from LD and endurance.  And I think the idea of crediting miles for partial completions is an awful idea.  Insulting, really. 

Carla Richardson

[Jody Rogers-Buttram]

How about a reverse pay scale.   say $150 to enter the LD ride. $95 to enter the 50, and only $45 to enter the 100.   Jody, remerember, money talks. --- On Thu, 5/23/13, okw...@prodigy.net <okw...@prodigy.net> wrote:

From: okw...@prodigy.net <okw...@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: [RC] Why people don't try the longer distances (was: Some of my id eas) To: ride...@endurance.net

Date: Thursday, May 23, 2013, 4:38 PM

On Thursday, May 23, 2013 3:50:40 PM UTC-5, David Lewis wrote: > Right, which is why I said I wouldn't enter a horse in a 100 unless I thought he stood a chance of completing it. > > > BTW, for trying to encourage riders to move up, ride managers could just offer more elevator rides, right? It's not like you're going to jump from a 50 to a 100, but you might from a 50 to 75, or 75 to 100, for example. In looking over the AERC rules, I don't even see any restrictions on doing an elevator ride from an LD to a 50 (although that may be silly). > > > > -- David > Redmond, WA > > > > On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 1:29 PM, ride...@juno.com <ride...@juno.com> wrote: > > >   > > >>>>>Just a thought: I think you'd still have the "pull", but if you did get credit for the milage, that wouldn't negate the negative impact of the pull. Therefore, if I wanted to >>>>>enter a 100 mile ride, but my horse was only conditioned for a 50, I still wouldn't enter in the 100 unless I thought I could do it. I might get credit for the milage, but >>>>>the pull would show on my record. So knowing that I could complete the 100 would still be important. > >   > David, you never KNOW you can finish the 100. You also don't know if you've conditioned for it until you try. I'd also say you don't know if you have a 100 mile horse until he does one. Some horses who may seem mediocre at the 50 shine at 100. What I believe I see is people who don't have the self confidence to take that chance. Sometimes I feel that we make it out to be such a big deal that people think they need a degree in Chemistry and to work their way up through the distances incrementally a season at a time, while I believe that if they have any intention of doing 100's LD simply teaches them they don't need to eat or drink because it will be over soon (that goes double for "fun rides"). Two years of conservative 50's and if all is going well try out a 100 and find out what you've got. I don't train any differently for a 100 than for a fifty. If anything, I train less between rides. The 50's are training rides for the 100. > >   >   > Angie > >   > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Political system upset? > > Democrats BIG advantage in America about to completely vanish > stansberryresearch.com > > > > > > >

> -- > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to ride...@endurance.net > >   > > To post to this group, send email to ride...@endurance.net > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to:       ridecamp+u...@endurance.net > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/a/endurance.net/group/ridecamp?hl=en

Excuse the post, but I was fore-warded the post by spouse and for the first time was compelled to reply to one of these things: For those of you that want credit for every little inch you crawl and breathe you breathe, perhaps anything labeled "Endurance" is not the right place for your energy. By definition it is supposed to be difficult, not easy, and failure is a very realistic outcome. If you think I'm picking on you............check yourself. When I first started Endurance Riding there were very real (and heated) debates among the AERC board about whether 50 mile rides should be given full credit and sanctioning, as the only real endurance distance at that time was considered to be at least 100 miles. Fifty mile rides were considered kind of a cheap LD, but a way to get new people into the sport and a way for RMs to make ends meet. Sound Familiar?

No I'm not a top rider or competitor, and have done a considerable number of LD rides on young horses, some broke to ride and some not. As Truman noted above, a 25 and 50 or 100 are not the same event, and do not need to be recognized as such. If you really think 25 miles on horseback is a real "Endurance" event you are out of touch(60-80 year old people do that distance (on their own two feet) consistently in less than 6 hours). It's just a good way to introduce new horses and riders to the  experience(and for ride managers to make ends meet). Grab a handful of mane and enjoy the day.

Bruce Burton

-- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to ride...@endurance.net To post to this group, send email to ride...@endurance.net

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to:       ridecamp+unsub...@endurance.net

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/a/endurance.net/group/ridecamp?hl=en --

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RidecampRedistributed" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ridecampredistributed+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

[Sandra Adams]

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ridecampredistri...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 

[Sandra Adams]

Sorry my laptop is AWOl. Waiting for my new one. sigh!

I think no one is going to pay $150 for an LD, particularly if people riding 50 pay less. Someone here commented that, while LD tends to be a supporting factor financially for most rides, they use less in terms of resource - vet time, etc. I think it would do three things - encourage some to ride 50 when they are nowhere near ready; discourage new riders from trying the sport at all; punish those who are starting a young horse, riding an old horse, coming back from a HUMAN injury, or simply unable to ride the longer distances for physical reasons. Finally, it would be patently unfair to charge more for less. The money would tell me to find another pursuit if I could or intended to ride only LD the rest of my life - and I Might - since I was not supposed to even do THAT after a rebuild of my right ankle. I simply could not afford to pay that kind of fee every time I wanted to go do a simple LD. 

On May 24, 2013, at 10:24 AM, Jody Rogers-Buttram <dragn...@yahoo.com> wrote:

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ridecampredistri...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 

[Truman Prevatt]

The basic concept of microeconomics is people will take the actions that will maximize their "utility function." When we put in place an inceptive program this changes the "utility function" and people will maximize it. The problem with any incentive program is that maximal point is often totally opposite from the intent. Sure a prize for 10 consecutive completions why ride an event where your probability of non-completion is 35% vs ones where the probability is 12%. The numbers just don't add up. We have too many prizes and awards. These awards have NOT worked. We have thrown all sorts of points, awards and promotions out there for 100's, however, the 100's continue to go down yearly. No award nor incentive program is going to increase our membership or ridership. The first step to the solution of a problem is to agree there is a problem. The second step is to identify the root cause of the problem and address that rather than the symptoms that observed.

As the intro to TV program, "there are 8 million stories in the naked city - this is one" there are as many reasons for people to chose the distances they do as there are people. We are not going to be able to come up with any awards program that change that.

Jody is right (boy does that pain me) - just "frigging" do it. If you thought about riding a 50 instead of a 25 - just do it. If you thought about a 100 - just do it. If you want to ride a 25 today so you can get to Miller time earlier and enjoy the weather - just do it. It is your sport - just do it. It should be fun and it should present with a challenge if you are inclined to take up the challenge - just do it. At the end of the day it is your sport. Each of us gets out of it what we put into it. Don't listen to any of the post on the Internet - including this one. Just go out, enjoy your horse and find your reason for why you are there and just do it.

Truman

On May 23, 2013, at 12:15 PM, ride...@juno.com wrote:

>
>
> As a person who has come up with programs that I *thought* would encourage people to move up but in ways had unintended consequences, I've decided that I don't care how many incentives are given for me NOT to do the hard ride, I will ignore them. I helped come up with SERA's "10 consecutive completions" award. Then my horse had 9 and I had to make the decision whether to enter the 50 or the 100 at the next ride. Screw the disincentive, I entered the 100. I've decided I'd rather get pulled at 87 than get credit for 50 that I pretty much knew I could finish. The whole point of this sport is to test yourself and enjoy that feeling of accomplishment when you make it. If you get it where I get credit for the extra miles, I'll take them. If you don't, I'd still rather be the person who tried.
>

--
"There are no eternal facts, as there are no absolute truths." Friedrich Nietzsche

[marshall Bates]

This is scary- I agree with both Truman and Jodi on ths. Marsh the muleman --- On Fri, 5/24/13, Truman Prevatt <tpre...@mindspring.com> wrote:

From: Truman Prevatt <tpre...@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: [RC] Why people don't try the longer distances (was: Some of my id eas)

[Maryben Stover]

Don't feel bad muleman.  I agree with them and with Joe.  Maybe the Zombie Apocalypse is upon us.  Come to think of it we did have an earthquake the other day.  Not unusual but it was over a 5.5 so I take notice of those.


..........mb

 

---

Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 16:47:14 -0700
From: mule...@yahoo.com

Subject: Re: [RC] Why people don't try the longer distances (was: Some of my id eas)

To: ride...@endurance.net; tpre...@mindspring.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to: ridecamp+u...@endurance.net

For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/a/endurance.net/group/ridecamp?hl=en
 
 
 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RidecampRedistributed" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ridecampredistri...@googlegroups.com.

[k Forde]

I agree w/Maryben and the others on this as well.

k

---

From: merr...@live.com
To: ride...@endurance.net
Subject: RE: [RC] Why people don't try the longer distances (was: Some of my id eas)
Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 17:07:01 -0700

[KSherman]

I thought the longer distance was classified as "endurance" due to the horse's metabolism, not by what it feels like to the rider. I think I remember reading a study several yrs ago on when the challenges to the horse's body on the extended exercise really kick in and I believe it was around 40 or more miles. Maybe someone with a better memory than me can help out here. It wouldn't make sense to classify miles as "endurance" by how the rider is feeling about the distance even though with my bad knees I feel pretty challenged at 20 miles these days. I sure won't feel like a lower class of rider if I ever decide that's my limit. 

Kathy