Bookmarks Menu Removed

[David]

I'd like to discuss the Bookmarks Menu, which as of revision 51403,
has been removed from Chrome.

I'll start by quoting a comment from Peter Kastings that he posted on
the code review for this change (Issue 2853024: http://codereview.chromium.org/2853024)...

"In this case, the removal was agreed upon by a couple different UI
leads and
isn't going to be reverted. I already posted comments on a few bugs
in our
database about the way we would consider exposing this in the future
(as a
"Bookmarks" item in the new unified menu), and there's also some work
ongoing on
an extension sidebar which would allow for bookmarks sidebar
extensions and
similar, so there are a couple ways this use case may get met in the
future."

I'd like to ask how this decision was agreed upon. What lead to the
removal of the Bookmarks Menu? It was about as obscure as it gets
(requiring the "--bookmark-menu" flag appended to the shortcut target
in order to enable it) nor was it referenced anywhere else in the UI
(not in the options, not in any context menus, etc.). So in what way
was the presence of the Bookmarks Menu negatively affecting the
development or end-user experience in such a way that warranted it
being removed?

In Peter's comment, he mentions two possible future alternatives to
the Bookmarks Bar, including a new sub-item in the unified menu as
well as a third party extension in this newly planned "extension
sidebar". I'd like to address both of these solutions, but first I'd
like to outline my thoughts as to why users like the Bookmarks Menu
and why it is a popular option in virtually all of Chrome's
competitors. The Bookmarks Menu provides the user with quick one-click
access to all of their bookmarks without having to navigate away from
the the current page, open any other tabs/windows or lose any
workspace. Additionally, it provides users with an easy way to recycle
tabs and thus reduce the amount of clicks necessary to open a
bookmark, as the user can use the Bookmark Menu to open a site in the
currently focused tab.

As for Peter's proposed solutions, I don't believe they are viable
alternatives to the now removed Bookmarks Menu. The proposed sub-item
in the unified menu increases both the amount of clicks necessary and
cursor travel in order for the user to access their bookmarks. As I
mentioned above, the one-click on-the-fly access of the Bookmarks Menu
is one of the factors which makes it appealing the the end-user in the
first place. Additionally, the inclusion of a Bookmarks sub-item would
only further clutter an already busy and intimidating unified menu.

Peter also mentions an "extension sidebar" which is currently in
development, in which a a third party developer could in theory
develop an extension which mimics the function of the Bookmarks Menu
in this sidebar. While I don't know the specifics of this extension
sidebar, I take it from the name that it will in fact be a bar on the
side of the browser. This poses many issues. First, this bar would
waste valuable screen space. The Bookmark Menu is opened by the user
with one click when it is needed and closes automatically once used,
taking up no additional space. That said, I'm sure there would be a
toggle to enable and disable this sidebar, but once again, this then
faces the same issue as the first proposal - additional mouse clicks.

With that said, I've yet to see the fine details and final
implementation of any of these proposals, so for all I know, they
could work out! But what I don't understand is why the Bookmarks Menu
was removed when no other solution is in place?

If you read discussion topics regarding Google Chrome in technology
forums and such, the Bookmarks Menu is a recurring topic. Many wonder
why Chrome doesn't have one (little did they know, it did). Many even
say that the lack of the Bookmarks Bar is the fundamental reason they
refuse to make the switch from Firefox and Opera. The few that did
know about the Bookmarks Bar wonder why it was never given a more
prominent place in Chrome's UI considering its demand.

As for me, I've had the Bookmarks Menu enabled for as long as I can
remember. For me, it is a necessity. I do not like using the Bookmarks
Bar as it uses up valuable workspace and clutters the toolbar
immensely. So unfortunately, this is yet another step backwards for
me. Given Firefox's recent advancements and its increasingly
attractive user interface in the recent Firefox 4 Beta, I can see
myself switching away once this change reaches official channels. I've
been a die-hard Chrome user since the day it came out (literally) and
never looked back since. I was hoping it would last longer than this.

[Peter Kasting]

If you write more condensed emails, your points will have more impact.

The critical point I have in reply is: why not solve this with an extension?

It seems to me like it would be pretty doable to write a Bookmarks Menu extension: Add a browser action whose icon is a bookmark menu folder, and when clicked, have its popup contain a list or tree of the user's bookmarks.  I know extensions have plenty of access to bookmarks since our own Bookmark Manager is built as one.

The benefits of this over --bookmarks-menu are that it's far more discoverable as an extension, and you can have multiple different authors implement their own takes on it instead of having to use whatever we ship.

The whole reason we designed the extension system is to allow you to add behaviors that we don't ship as part of Chrome by default.  This seems like a great case to put that into practice.

PK

[PhistucK]

I agree - but - there is a difference.

At least for me, browser actions are opening with a delay. Sometimes a short delay, sometimes a long delay.

The bookmark menu did not have this delay, which makes the user experience worse when it is implemented through extensions.

☆PhistucK

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View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe:
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[Espiox]

Indeed. Looking through the alternatives in the Extension Gallery,
there isn't one that works as well as the built-in menu, which is fast
and simple.

I still don't really see why this was removed, at least until there's
an alternative added. It's not like it's cluttering the UI, and having
a toolbar or sidebar open is actually more detrimental in terms of UI
clutter and wasted screen space.

[PhistucK]

Command line flags are not supposed to hide an option, they are there for testing purposes and for unfinished or undecided features.

Keeping a feature under a command line forever is out of the question, it is not an option and the fact that it was there for so long is merely due to a lack of attention rather than due to a deliberate choice.

It is not supposed to be some sort of an about:config. It is for testing and debugging, mostly.

☆PhistucK

[dinu]

is there a list available somewhere, with the list of commandline enabled future features ?

Greetings
Dinsan

http://chromestory.com/

[PhistucK]

http://src.chromium.org/viewvc/chrome/trunk/src/chrome/common/chrome_switches.cc?view=markup

☆PhistucK

[Peter Kasting]

On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 11:14 PM, PhistucK <phis...@gmail.com> wrote:

I agree - but - there is a difference.

At least for me, browser actions are opening with a delay. Sometimes a short delay, sometimes a long delay.

The bookmark menu did not have this delay, which makes the user experience worse when it is implemented through extensions.

The right answer to that is to file a bug to fix the delay, since obviously that makes _all_ extensions' experiences suboptimal.

PK 

[Espiox]

Okay, so why did this never become a real feature? And why is it
completely out of the question now?

On Jul 3, 4:50 pm, PhistucK <phist...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Command line flags are not supposed to hide an option, they are there for
> testing purposes and for unfinished or undecided features.
> Keeping a feature under a command line forever is out of the question, it is
> not an option and the fact that it was there for so long is merely due to a
> lack of attention rather than due to a deliberate choice.
>
> It is not supposed to be some sort of an about:config. It is for testing and
> debugging, mostly.
>
> ☆PhistucK
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 12:22, Espiox <esp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Indeed. Looking through the alternatives in the Extension Gallery,
> > there isn't one that works as well as the built-in menu, which is fast
> > and simple.
>
> > I still don't really see why this was removed, at least until there's
> > an alternative added. It's not like it's cluttering the UI, and having
> > a toolbar or sidebar open is actually more detrimental in terms of UI
> > clutter and wasted screen space.
>
> > --

> > Chromium Discussion mailing list: chromium-disc...@chromium.org

[PhistucK]

The delay is caused by loading an HTML file, which takes at least a little bit more than loading a user interface menu.

If you think it is possible to match the speed of a native implementation and the speed of an HTML implementation, then, yes, an issue should be created for it.

What do you think?

☆PhistucK

[Peter Kasting]

On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 12:29 PM, PhistucK <phis...@gmail.com> wrote:

The delay is caused by loading an HTML file, which takes at least a little bit more than loading a user interface menu.

If you think it is possible to match the speed of a native implementation and the speed of an HTML implementation, then, yes, an issue should be created for it.

What do you think?

I think instead of trying to guess ahead of time at how much better we could do, you should just file.

There may already be something on file for this.

PK 

[Joshua Santos]

I completely agree with David. I use Chrome on 8 different computers
and work at a SaaS company where I have literally recommended Chrome
to hundreds of users as the best browser available. Without a
Bookmark Menu, I honestly am not sure if I can make that
recommendation anymore. Removing this would be a horrible mistake for
the millions of people that have come to rely on quick and fast access
to their bookmarks. Just one more click will kill the best default
bookmarking system out there.

[David]

Peter, I won't keep debating this with you, all I can do is ask one
last time to please reconsider the removal of the Bookmarks Menu.

At least until a reasonable (and equally performing) replacement is
available in the Extensions gallery. That seems like a fair request to
me.

[Joshua Santos]

Ah, hold on a sec. I think I misunderstood what is happening. I
confused the bookmark menu and the bookmark bar... I thought this was
about killing the bookmark bar and consolidating it somewhere else. I
didn't even realize a bookmark menu was an option. I retract
everything I said above.

[Ben]

I do not understand the need for all of this. The code is already
written. It would not be difficult to merge it back into the
channel. A simple check box in the options menu asking if the user
would like to use the Bookmark Button could easily be added. It would
please the people who miss the button, show people that never heard of
the option that they can choose this, all with no cost to anyone. I
don't see why it is such a big deal to reincorporate it, especially if
it is already written.

[David Kraljic]

David, 

I see your discussion here regarding bookmark sidebar. So I thought I'd mention that I got tired of waiting for chrome to add that feature so I developed a chrome extension called sidecar. It gives you a bookmark side panel much like firefox. You can see it here: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/sidecar-bookmarks-sidebar/lbnegejhdjianfmbancpeflnkbfollfi